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HP Spoilers Archive

Posts 1-150

(July 13, 2005 thru partial July 24, 2005)

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Name:

 Alfan

Location:

 Canada

Comments:

 I 100% believe that Snape is not evil and one word made me change my mind...........Dumbledore.
Dumbledore............ , who has faced many fierce Dark Wizards in his lifetime and who once said to Tom Riddle that "there are worse things than death Tom" to me WOULD NOT EVER BEG FOR HIS LIFE TO A SLIMY GIT OF A DEATHEATER. Snape did not turn, he is only doing what DD asked of him, because no one else could put emotion aside and do the deed for the good of the wizarding world no matter how bad it look. Draco couldnt, Harry wouldnt, no one but Snape was capable, why else would DD ask Harry to "go wake Severus, tell him whats happening and bring here to me,nothing else" --pretty precise directions if you ask me.Albus Dumbledore would never ever beg for his life, if he truly believed that Snape turned i think he would say a little something different than " please Severus"...dont you agree. I know that many will not agree an think that Snape had turned but i truly believe that he didnt. I mean he didnt even shoot a curse at Harry, i mean he is suppose to of hated this kid,why wouldnt he fight back, his cover is blown, who would care if he took a little shot at Harry, why would he care-he hates this kid, he could of fired at least one curse but to instruct Harry to keep his mouth shut and his mind closed and to stop other deatheaters from hurting Harry, does this sound like an evil person, a person who turned.....no, not to me and i for one will hold out till the end of book seven that he will be redeemed even at the cost of his own death.

Friday, July 22nd 2005 - 04:12:32 PM

Name:

 Ricky

Location:

 Austria

Comments:

 Just finished HP 5 the second time. Have today got HP 6. Well - kind of toooo scared to open and read it! Read to much spoilers ;o( But god thanks I did, because if I had read the book without it, all the facts and so on would have really hit me. Even more as reading all that stuff did.

Hmm, I have decided - no matter was SS does or says it HP 6, he will still be my hero. *g* I'll be waiting for the next book, who will proove, my hopings are right, he is not THAT bad, no DE, everything was a plot with DD :o)

I was first on this mysterious guy SS before getting on AR, who could that wonderful perform this really awful teacher.

Ricky

Friday, July 22nd 2005 - 03:57:55 PM

Name:

 Julie

Location:

 Michigan

Comments:

 Thanks for the def. of "fug," Martha.

I just hope Snape wasn't merely waiting to jump camp into whatever side appeared to be winning the war. The Order of the Phoenix does seem to be losing by the end of HBP.

Why, Snape, why????????

Friday, July 22nd 2005 - 02:22:38 PM

Name:

 martha

Comments:

 Carol - That may very well be true. But if it comes down to it, I'd rather be right about it than complimented - lol!

Friday, July 22nd 2005 - 12:48:20 PM

Name:

 Carol

Location:

 Michigan

E-mail address:

 http://www.livejournal.com/users/carecrystal/

Comments:

 I think JKR may have given Snape fans quite a compliment.

I know so many people were dismayed by the turn of events re Snape in HBP, and I believe JKR anticipated this reaction. Like others, I think she used Hagrid's reaction when Harry broke the news to him to address fan reactions. But I'm also convinced that JKR has put more than one level into Hagrid's comments than what we see on the first read.

First, consider the actual comments Hagrid made:

"I jus' saw them Death Eaters runnin' down from the castle, but what the ruddy hell was Snape doin' with 'em?...Snape kill Dumbledore---don' be stupid Harry. Wha's made yeh say that?...What musta happened was, Dumbledore musta told Snape ter go with them Death Eaters. I suppose he's gotta keep his cover..."

Hagrid is clearly in denial and has therefore immediately assigned a "real" reason that reflects positively on Snape. At first glance, it seems that JKR is anticipating the fan argument that "Snape is really good because of ABC," and is using Hagrid's comments to shoot this down as being naive.

But I there's more going on here and this is why: JKR loves Hagrid. Whatever else he is, Hagrid is also a truly good and decent person.

So when you think about it, isn't this by extension a compliment to all the Snape fans out there? JKR is basically saying that this is how a truly good and decent person would of course see Snape. They'd react just like Hagrid did, with denial and disbelief, and would try to find an alternative explanation for what happened.

Fans of Snape want to see the best in him. She knows darn well that she's made him thoroughly mysterious all along, so it's in no way naive to have assumed that he's actually noble at heart. She built that right into the books herself, after all.

By using Hagrid (and no one else) to express the opinion of so many fans, she's basically telling Snape fans that we are very nice people if we react with denial and disbelief. In a way, she probably could not give us a higher compliment.

Friday, July 22nd 2005 - 10:41:50 AM

Name:

 martha

Comments:

 Unprepared? Harry? lol! Poor boy. If he would listen to Snape, he would do better. Shut his mouth and close his mind. I think he has most of what he needs knowledge-wise, I think his issue is control. Perhaps one reason Snape is always goading him? Trying to teach him? (You can tell which camp I’m in concerning Snape.) He has gotten past Snape. The Stinging Hex when he wanted Snape out of his mind was fast and silent. And worked. And Harry has his secret weapon. If he can keep his hate at bay, I think he’ll be fine. Good luck with that if Snape is around.

As for Olivander, I wonder if he went into hiding? I wonder if his name and FF were just names mentioned, or if they have real significance. Like the people killed. Why those names?

Snape mentioned that he provided the information that lead to a number of deaths. Ouch.

Now. After Narcissa told him about Draco’s mission, about which he already knew, but after she came out and told him, he went to the window, looked out, and twitched the curtain back in place. WHY? Was he signaling someone? Looking to see if Peter was away with a message? On his command? On someone else’s? I can’t believe that was a random action. Oh. Unless JKR is fooling with us. Any thoughts?

Friday, July 22nd 2005 - 06:14:32 AM

Name:

 SARF

Location:

 NZ

Comments:

 Oops! My bad! Ch. 2 is named Spinners End. I was thinking of webs and spiders while typing that sentence.

Friday, July 22nd 2005 - 12:03:02 AM

Name:

 Vicki

Location:

 Los Angeles

Comments:

 Testing....testing.....I guess there's a delay again. Waw!!

Thursday, July 21st 2005 - 10:55:34 PM

Name:

 Vicki

Location:

 Los Angeles

Comments:

 I caught the Ron/Rupert mix-up too...it made me chuckle.

I'm pretty sure that the chapter is named Spinner's End not Spinner's Web. But, since my copy of the book is clear at the other end of the house and I'm too lazy to get up and go confirm it....I'll leave it to someone else to tell us definitivly. But, spinner could still refer to a spider...so the web of deceit thing is still valid.

Mr. Olivander's disappearance I think could be significant. I got the impression that he was an old friend of Dumbledore and he remembered every wand he ever made. He would be a valuable person to capture if you wanted to know where your enemies weakness lie. Assmuing certain core properties have particular strengths. Also, there was the whole brother wands cannot duel thing from the graveyard scene in GoF. Maybe Voldie wants to have him make a wand that will allow him to duel with Harry again.

Does it bother anyone else that Harry still seems pretty unprepared to do battle with an adult wizard? Especially one as powerful as Voldie? When you look back at the scene where Snape is escaping with Draco and he seems to be flicking aside everything that Harry throws at him with absurd ease, it makes me wonder if he's really ready for this. Perhaps he will have to find some other way to defeat him....but I can't imagine how.

Thursday, July 21st 2005 - 10:52:44 PM

Name:

 martha

Comments:

 Oh, and Julie? Not a silly question at all. I've seen that same question posted two other places as well. Not a common word.

Thursday, July 21st 2005 - 07:16:03 PM

Name:

 martha

Comments:

 Julie - m-w.com defines fug as:
the stuffy atmosphere of a poorly ventilated space; also : a stuffy or malodorous emanation

dictionary.com:
A heavy, stale atmosphere, especially the musty air of an overcrowded or poorly ventilated room

Thursday, July 21st 2005 - 04:16:19 PM

Name:

 Julie

Location:

 MIchigan

Comments:

 My daughter wants to dye her hair pink. Thinks it will give her a better shot at Lupin. : )

Did anybody else catch where Slughorn can't remember Ron's name, and calls him Rupert?

Also, I have perhaps a silly question. In my copy of the book, she uses the word "fug" instead of "fog." Is that a typo, or do UKers use "fug?"

Thursday, July 21st 2005 - 04:08:09 PM

Name:

 martha

Comments:

 Pam and Susan - A shipper refers to someone who is adamantly in favor of a certain relationship. Frequently a fanfic reader or writer. For instance, the Harry/Hermione "ship." There has been fic written on every possible ship out there, and some of them have nicknames. Snape/Hermione is a popular one. (Can't see it myself.) Then there's Snarry, Snack, Snupin - funny,a lot of them involve Snape. Or maybe that's just the ones I see the most of. (There was even one with Snape and the Sorting Hat, but I won't go there.) The new book "sank a lot of ships" as the saying goes.


Thursday, July 21st 2005 - 03:01:36 PM

Name:

 Pam

Location:

 Massachusetts

Comments:

 I mentioned this on Suzanes HPB forum yesterday. What do you guys think about the disappearance of Mr. Ollivander from Diagon Alley? JKR doesnt say and it was stated he either left voluntary or was "forced" to leave. My only thought is that the wands he ended up giving Harry and Voldemort both were from the phoenix. Do you think there is a possibility that he was taken by the DE? He could prove useful I would imagine to them. It was just a thought I have been pondering and probably a strange one at that! (LOl) I cant wait to see what she does in book 7 to wrap this all up.
I also didnt know what JKR meant using the term "shipper" and would be interested to find out also.
Have a good one, Pam

Thursday, July 21st 2005 - 01:14:06 PM

Name:

 Susan

Location:

 CO

Comments:

 What is a "shipper" that JKR talks about in this interview?

I have a feeling it will be two years before we see the final book. If she doesn't start writing until after the new year anyway.

I would think we would find out all the reasons Snape hates James. And the connection between Snape and Lily. Could they be related, by any chance? I've only read each book once, so I can't remember if Lily was very definitely a Gryffindor. Any chance she was a Slytherin, or like Harry, would have made a good one?

I like Emily's theory about the title for chapter two, too. And her reasons are why I'm holding out hope that Snape didn't stay on the dark side. Isn't this the first time we've really seen him with other death eaters? You know he had dealings with them in the other books, we just never witnessed them.

Thursday, July 21st 2005 - 11:49:17 AM

Name:

 martha

Comments:

 SARF - lol! I pinched the locket mention from someone's LJ. Wish I could take credit for remembering it.

Looks as though JKR has all but admitted RAB is Regulus Black. Don't really like what she had to say about Snape, though.

ES: Was Dumbledore planning to die?

JKR: [Pause.] Do you think that's going to be the big theory?

MA & ES: Yes. It’ll be a big theory.

JKR: [Pause.] Well, I don't want to shoot that one down. [A little laughter.] I have to give people hope.

MA: It goes back to the question of whether Snape is a double-double-double-triple-

JKR: [Laughs] Double-double-quadruple-to-the-power-of - yeah.

MA: …whether this had been planned, and since Dumbledore had this knowledge of Draco the whole year, had they had a discussion that said, "Should this happen, you have to act as if it is entirely your intention to just walk forward and kill me, because if you don't, Draco will die, the Unbreakable Vow, you'll die," and so on —

JKR: No, I see that, and yeah, I follow your line there. I can't — I mean, obviously, there are lines of speculation I don't want to shut down. Generally speaking, I shut down those lines of speculation that are plain unprofitable. Even with the shippers. God bless them, but they had a lot of fun with it. It's when people get really off the wall — it's when people devote hours of their time to proving that Snape is a vampire that I feel it's time to step in, because there's really nothing in the canon that supports that.

ES: It's when you look for those things —

JKR: Yeah, it's after the 15th rereading when you have spots in front of your eyes that you start seeing clues about Snape being the Lord of Darkness. So, there are things I shut down just because I think, well, don't waste your time, there's better stuff to be debating, and even if it's wrong, it will probably lead you somewhere interesting. That's my rough theory anyway.


Thursday, July 21st 2005 - 11:34:55 AM

Name:

 Claudia

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 Hello everyone!

I wonder how long the last book is going to take......Rowling:I'm dreading ending Potter

Thursday, July 21st 2005 - 07:51:58 AM

Name:

 SARF

Location:

 NZ

Comments:

 Last night, I went and re-read OotP, and saw a mention of a "heavy locket that no-one could open," I got very excited, and thought that I'd post that here. But Martha beat me to it! Bugger! Well done though!

I think that this locket could be a horcrux. But, I'm very interested in the 'Harry is a horcrux' theory too. It sounds very plausible, and very JKR.But, is there any way that a person can be a horcrux?

I also like the theory on why Ch. 2 was named Spinners Web. Very plausible. It could also be named because we, as the readers, finally get some idea of the huge, and frighteningly complex, web of intrigue and deception that Snape has spun. Up till that point, we'd only seen him work for the 'good' side. Now we are seeing him at work for the 'evil' side. Maybe (and I'm clutching at straws here),'Spinners Web' could also be cluing us into the fact that Snape's web is about to get even more complex than anyone imaginged. now, we are not completely sure who he is working for.

I had also looked at Harry's eyes from a physical aspect. But now I also think that the fact that Lily could 'see the good and the beauty in people' is extremely important, and I also think that Harry could have inherited this too.

I remember JKR saying that she was shocked at all the 'foreshadowing' in the PoA movie, so I think I might re-watch that before coming up with anymore theories.

Claudia - Thank you so much for this forum! Is there anyway that you could keep this up until Bk. 7 comes out? I'm having a lot of fun drawing theories with everyone here. So thanks to everyone else as well!


Thursday, July 21st 2005 - 01:05:56 AM

Name:

 Emtee

Comments:

 Mugglenet and Leaky Cauldron have posted the 2nd part of their interview with JKR. Very enlightening!

Wednesday, July 20th 2005 - 08:55:46 PM

Name:

 Ricky

Location:

 Austria

Comments:

 Charly could be the member, who didn't have a quite big role until now, or AD's brother, hmmmm.

RIcky

Wednesday, July 20th 2005 - 12:59:06 PM

Name:

 martha

Comments:

 Julie - mmm, AR in a black wig and a cape maybe. Remember what JKR said about Snape? "A thouroughly horrible person," was it? Horrible maybe - though not as bad as Umbridge - but evil??

Wednesday, July 20th 2005 - 12:02:22 PM

Name:

 martha

Comments:

 Someone just remimded me of one of the items listed as being in 12 Grimmauld Place. "A heavy locket none of them could open."

Wednesday, July 20th 2005 - 11:26:37 AM

Name:

 Julie

Location:

 Michigan

Comments:
Sabine: I don't know if Snape is Draco's master, but he could be mine!! :)

Wednesday, July 20th 2005 - 10:29:34 AM

Name:

 martha

Comments:

 Ricky - You're welcome. I'm afraid I'm one of those obnoxious people who like to get the details straight. Not to mention an almost unquenchable thirst for trivia.

Anyone see this from the interview?

"...there is one member of the Order of the Phoenix that you have not yet met properly and you will, well, you know that they are a member, but you haven't really met them properly yet and you will meet them in seven, so I am looking forward to that."

Now who could she be talking about??

Wednesday, July 20th 2005 - 09:55:53 AM

Name:

 Ricky

Location:

 Austria

Comments:

 @martha - thank you for posting this interesting lexicon-link for me.

Ricky

Wednesday, July 20th 2005 - 09:44:33 AM

Name:

 martha

Location:

 north of here

Comments:

 Laurie – I think JKR did say that about using the Unforgivables at one point. Harry has, however, used Crucio before on Bellatrix. It just didn’t work because, according to her, you have to really mean it. I believe, had his Crucio landed on Snape, it very well might have worked. But I don’t think he would have sustained it for more that a second, and I don’t think he was trying to kill Snape. (Crucio was the only Unforgivable Harry threw at him, although Snape’s own Sectumsempra looks to be been deadly if the injuries aren’t treated immediately.) Harry’s horror at what he did to Draco, and his refusal to kill Wormtail make me think that he won’t kill Snape, and that if he does destroy V, it will not be for revenge. Revenge takes hatred, and Harry’s “secret weapon” is love.

I’m sure Harry and Snape will never like each other, but I do hope for some kind of understanding between them.

Mary – The Lexicon has all kinds of info. Under Which Wizard you can find all the info on any given wizard that can be dug out of the books. Lexicon is the site JKR has said she has used to check her facts when she’s writing.
(I hope posting the link doesn’t offend those who are not interested in the facts.)

Carol - got coffee on? I be right over.


Wednesday, July 20th 2005 - 08:46:58 AM

Name:

 Carol

Location:

 Michigan

Homepage URL:

 http://www.livejournal.com/users/carecrystal/

Comments:

 Martha, thanks for posting the Lexicon link for Ricky.

I also think that Harry is or was a Horcrux. But I also think it is possible that he is not one any longer.

Because I tend to go on about these things in such long detail, I'm starting to put my thoughts into my Live Journal instead, at www.livejournal.com/users/carecrystal/

I love the ongoing spoilers discussion on the DHGB---I'm compelled to check in every day to see what's new! There are so many terrific ideas and theories here.

Thank you, Claudia, for doing this!


Wednesday, July 20th 2005 - 08:14:28 AM

Name:

 Laurie

Location:

 Vermont

Comments:

 I just finished reading the book and boy oh boy what a lot to think about! I quickly read thru the posts (haven't gone back to the archives yet). I love reading everyone's thoughts and theories. You've given me much more to think about. I'm going to wait a couple of days, let the book sink in, and then have another read.

I know I'm probably in denial about Snape but I just can't believe he's turned to the dark side. He's not very nice most of the time but I've never thought him evil, at least not since he's been a teacher at Hogworts. I truly believe that whatever happened to Snape (and unfortunately Dumbledore is the only one who knows the entire story) in the past made him loyal to Dumbledore. I have faith in Dumbledore and feel his faith in Snape is well founded. I noticed that Snape (when he was fleeing the castle) stopped Harry several times from using an "Unforgivable Curse". Didn't it say in one of the previous books that once a wizard used an unforgivable curse there was no going back? I can't remember and I didn't re-read any of the previous books before I read this one (I wish now that I had). I know Harry was trying to kill him but Snape could have just as easily killed Harry. He also prevented the other DEs from killing Harry. I have to believe that he was looking out for both Harry and Draco. I can't help but think back to the other books and the other times that Snape stepped in to save Harry.

I probably will be proven wrong when the next book comes out but I just can't give up on Snape, regardless of whether AR plays the Character or not! I was a Harry Potter fan before I was an AR fan.

Well, off to bed now or I'll never get up for work. Thanks Claudia for having this forum where we can talk about the book and thanks to all who have contributed.

Wednesday, July 20th 2005 - 12:31:04 AM

Name:

 Vicki

Location:

 Los Angeles

Comments:

 Oh, I would so like to believe your theory, Julie, I really would, but I think that we saw the real McCoy...a genuine Avada Kedavra curse. I also say that because I remember reading an interview of JKR a long time ago where she stated that in her books, she didn't want to deceive children about death. She wanted them to understand that when someone dies, that's it...they are not coming back. So it's important to appreciate them now, while they are here.

I also wondered about Dumbledore's portrait and why neither Harry nor McGonagall tried to speak to it. Then, after I read the funeral scene, I decided that the phoenix that was seen rising from DD's coffin was his spirit. So, probably until the spirit crosses over to the next big adventure, maybe the portrait cannot yet speak. Just a theory.

Wednesday, July 20th 2005 - 12:27:39 AM

Name:

 Mary

Location:

 Warwick, RI

Comments:

 Elaine, it's just a theory.. perhaps based on my desire to keep the faith in Snape. I've done some further reading, and am wondering if Neville will be the one who actually puts an end to Voldemort (not based on whether he or Harry is the boy mentioned in the prophecy).



I'm going to try and skim through all the HP books this week when I have the time to glean as many details as possible about Snape.. I'd like to try and get some hints on what his patronus might be. Any of you remember any details about any statuary, art, etc.. he might have in his rooms that could provide a clue? My daughter thinks a spider, but that's just her guessing.



One thing I'd love to see, and wonder if there's anything like it on any fan sites.. is a page or site with a family tree for all the relevant characters from HP, including any connections.

Wednesday, July 20th 2005 - 12:19:18 AM

Name:

 Elaine

Comments:

 Julie, I like the thought of "Draught of the Living Death" being used. Snape mentions it the very first time he meets Harry and it is again brought up in the first lesson that Slughorn teaches. I think you on to something there....

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 11:52:48 PM

Name:

 Sabine

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 Julie - that's an interesting point you bring up about Snape saying "your" master instead of "our." It almost sounds like Snape is talking about himself, asking Draco what he is hiding from him, doesn't it? But then again, Snape is not Draco's master. Or is he? LOL

I'm not sure about your Fawkes theory though. I have the feeling that Dumbledore is indeed dead.

I can't remember if I asked this on this forum before, but I was wondering why Dumbledore's portrait didn't talk and why McGonnagall didn't talk to the portrait.

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 10:28:07 PM

Name:

 Claudia

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 Wow! So the thoughts and opinions of the new book and subsequent book 7 still rage on! I never expected to have to archive this site--but not even a week in and I had to do just that this morning.

I have to admit that I am quite amazed at all the differing plots and theories everyone is coming up with.

Just remember its all in fun and that's why we're here....to have some Super Snape fun! Yall are the best around!

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 09:50:23 PM

Name:

 Julie

Location:

 Michigan

Comments:

 OK, after much thinking, and lack of sleep, I've come up with this. Let me know if you think I'm just "nutters."


When Dumbledore fell off the tower, could Fawkes have caught him, or better yet, DD been a secret phoenix animagus? When he landed on the ground, he could have drunk some Draught of Living Death, and during the funeral Harry thought he saw a phoenix take off out of the flames. (Flames wouldn't have hurt a phoenix.) Of course all of this supposes that the Avada Kedavra was a cover-up for an unspoken curse that would have knocked him off the tower.

There just has to be an explanation as to why Snape is a good guy and the hero of the entire series!!

Also, I read something interesting on another site. At the Christmas party, when Snape asks Draco "what thoughts are you trying to conceal from YOUR master?" He doesn't say OUR master.

I'm grasping at straws, I know. That's what I intend to do for the next couple years!!

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 09:08:37 PM

Name:

 martha

Comments:

 Vicki - thank you, that's kind of you.

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 08:21:03 PM

Name:

 Sabine

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 Elaine - I agree with you: whatever part Snape will play in book 7, it will be BIG. :-) Do we really have to wait two years for book 7? *sigh*

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 08:15:09 PM

Name:

 Vicki

Location:

 Los Angeles

Comments:

 Don't fret about it, martha...you said nothing wrong.

Interesting analogy about the eyes. I, too, merely thought about the physical resemblence. But Harry does need to figurativly "open his eyes". He can be very stubborn sometimes and oftentimes miss the obvious. Perhaps he should start to view things in the way his mother did.

I thought that Snape was brewing the wolfsbane potion on Dumbledore's orders?

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 08:10:02 PM

Name:

 Elaine

Comments:

 Well, re-reading the book now and one thing that I am very certain of, is that Snape will have a BIG CRUCIAL PART to play in Bk 7. So I'm pretty excited about that at least - whatever side he turns out to be on!

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 07:59:19 PM

Name:

 martha

Comments:

 Excuse me.

I was not attacking anyone, merely debating a point. I thought. It was certainly not my intention to belittle anyone or their views.

The link was provided because someone asked for it and was not intended to support my position in any way.

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 07:31:50 PM

Name:

 Susan

Location:

 CO

Comments:

 Emily,

You bring up so many good points, some that I hadn't thought of. Anytime someone that knew Lily would comment on Harry having her eyes I only thought of the physical resemblance. I do remember that part in the movie, and I believe you are correct. And coming from the man that benefited from the potion that Snape made for him makes it even more clear.

It IS too easy to have Harry think that Snape is just what he always thought. That will be a big part of this next book, Harry discovering he was wrong about Snape. I too think that Snape and Lily had some type of connection.

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 07:25:04 PM

Name:

 Miem

Location:

 Oregon, USA

Comments:

 I had a lot of the same theories as a lot of you (Regulus Black, arrangement between Snape/AD,etc).

I was just curious as to if any of you thought that there could be more of a reason , during the scene when Harry is pursuing Snape and Draco out of Hogwarts, why JKR continued to mention the large, tall, blonde DE that was retreating with Snape and Draco ahead of everyone else? She doesn't give a name for this one, right? But all the other DEs that were there were named at some point. Unless I missed something in my reading...could one of you doublecheck if interested (I will as well soon). The person would have been wearing a DE mask right?


Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 06:00:41 PM

Name:

 Elaine

Comments:

 Sabine, I guess I'm trying to paint the worst picture I can! Good point about it being too simplistic, though. I guess Snape being evil all the time is just what Harry wants him to be as he has never believed him to be "good". And to make him evil would just be the easy option. It makes it easier for JKR to fit him into the story in Bk 7. But, she has never taken the easy option and when she set out to write Snape, she could not have envisaged the kind of following that the character has gained through the movies (TOTALLY due to AR!) and to fan fic from kids and adults.

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 05:42:52 PM

Name:

 Sabine

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 Elaine - after reading the first part of the interview at The Leaky Cauldron, I have to admit that my doubts flaired up again a little bit. But if Snape was really on Voldie's site, wouldn't that be just too simplistic? I know that JKR said that Dumbledore may just be too trusting (or something to that effect), but still... Am I in denial? LOL

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 05:00:17 PM

Name:

 Gissing's Girl

Location:

 UK

Comments:

 I think that everyone has forgotten one vital fact. The Harry Potter books were WRITTEN FOR CHILDREN. They were never meant to be picked apart and analised the way that they are. They are meant to be pure entertainment, to carry the reader away into a world of fantasy where he/she can loose himself and forget the real world for a while. It says a lot for JKR's writing that the shaping of the characters has spawned such faithful and anxious ramblings about every little detail.

Martha, I believe Emily has just as much right to be posting her random thoughts on this board as you do. All her thoughts are valid and relevant and do not need picking over to the extent that you do. I think she knows what she is talking about and we are privileged that she has not been driven away by the likes of you.

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 04:53:00 PM

Name:

 Emily

Comments:

 Martha: Since JKR approved every word of the movie script, as well as made statements to the effect that she was "astonished" at some moments of "foreshadowing" in POA, I will continue to put my faith in dialogue from the movies.

Also, I posted my random thoughts, as everyone else has, to get them off my mind. I am not interested in debating. I dont really have the time to pore over the lexicon for obscure facts. But if that's your thing, feel free to pick apart my theories in my absence.

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 03:12:11 PM

Name:

 martha

Comments:

 Emily - I don't think Wolfsbane was available when Lily was alive. Also, I wouldn't put any faith in dialog from the movie that is not in the book.

Here is the link for the Lexicon's page on Snape:
HP Lexicon


Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 03:06:18 PM

Name:

 Emily

Comments:

 Random thoughts:

Harry's scar is the final Horcrux

Snape made an unbreakable vow with DD to kill him if the time came. Not sure if they knew about Draco's assignment at the time yet.

Chapter 2 is called "Spinner's End", because when spidery Snape makes the UV with Narcissa, he knows his web of intrigue is up - he's not getting out of this one alive. If he kills DD for Draco, the Dark Lord will have his ass.

Important part of Harry's journey is to get past his emotions and see the truth. Harry needs to see the truth about Snape -- that he may be flawed, but he has genuinely turned and was working for DD all along. Harry has to spare Snape or save his life, in keeping with the arc of the story. Otherwise, it makes a mockery of DD's belief that there is good in everyone, that love is the strongest force.

Harry has his mother's eyes, we are constantly reminded. In the POA movie, Lupin tells Harry on the bridge that Lily could "see the beauty" -- or maybe it was "see the good", I havent checked -- in everyone. I think in a crucial moment, Harry will find out the full extent of what it means to have "his mother's eyes" and he will be able to "see" the truth, perhaps about Snape.

Snape and Lily had a connection, maybe a friendship based on their skill at Potions. Lily taught Snape the curses he wrote in the HBP's book. I always wondered why Snape continued to make the potion for Lupin every month when he hated him, and after POA movie I had a feeling it was because Lily asked him to, or swore him to.


Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 02:12:57 PM

Name:

 Ricky

Location:

 Austria

Comments:

 @Carol, Michigan - could you pleas post the side, where the Harry-Potter-Lexicon is? Thank you.
Ricky

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 02:10:06 PM

Name:

 Elaine

Comments:

 From what JKR has said about Snape in that interview and in previous interviews, I think that he's always been in league with the dark side, and is evil. It pains me to say it - it really does! But I just have that feeling. Two years is a long time to wait to find out!!

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 01:56:25 PM

Name:

 Hikity

Location:

 Germany, "Rhinehattan"

Comments:

 Thanks Vicki, I agree with you, although I am not convinced that DD's death is the only option. There are more people around who need him. And Harry's initiation does not necessarily have to go along with DD's death. Besides, he is the strongest of all wizards, isn't he?? Well, I'll talk to my daughter about it. Thanks again

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 01:47:29 PM

Name:

 Elaine

Comments:

 Mary, when I first saw your ideas about Trelawny snuffing it instead of AD, I thought no way. But I've been thinking and I reckon you have a valid point! I'll have to go and read over it again, but we don't actually see AD's body at the funeral and someone could have performed a glamour spell or something! It's another point to ponder.

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 01:43:35 PM

Name:

 Carol

Location:

 Michigan

Comments:

 Emtee, thanx for posting about that interview. Just read it on Mugglenet.com and can't wait to read the rest.

Martha, yes, I thought about that too, about Harry being the 6th Horcrux. Or Neville being the 6th one for that matter, which also would be awful if true.

I think I have had a delayed emotional reaction to the book. I was so thrilled that AR would clearly play a major part if he elects to do the sixth movie, that the impact of this turn of events has not hit really me until now. It's pretty discouraging, and I'm probably just beginning to work through what a lot of you went through a few days ago. I'll just have to keep re-reading the positive clues that also exist.

BTW, a nice summary of pro-and-con "Is Snape evil?" clues are up now in the HP Lexicon, under Snape's name in the "which wizard" section.

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 01:40:47 PM

Name:

 Vicki

Location:

 Los Angeles

Comments:

 Hikity - I'm sorry your daughter had such a reaction to the book. I think what she is feeling is shock and surprise more than anything. Tell her to give the book a rest and return to it in a month or so and look at it from a different perspective. She may have an all together different reaction the second time around.

Beyond the first book, I have always felt that these were stories for all ages. As the books progress, they do become much darker. JKR has never claimed that this series would be a "feel good" adventure.

I have always suspected that Dumbledore would not survive to the final book. It is an important part of Harry's development that he stand up and face Voldie in the final battle by himself. If Dumbledore were there to always call upon, Harry would tend not to use all his resources to defeat Voldemort, which only he (Harry)can do. Regardless of whether Dumbledore died a natural, quiet death or the way he went, children would be upset. This way, we have a cliff-hanger, dramatic ending, a villian to hate for the next two years (but will eventually be proved to be one of JKR's infamous red-herrings)and Harry has the emotional motivation to accomplish what he is destined to do. JMHO.




Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 11:39:32 AM

Name:

 Claudia

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 How could I leave off SeverinaSnape and Palabra! Welcome!

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 11:04:42 AM

Name:

 Claudia

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 Ohhh I see so many news names here! Mehitabel, Andrea, Snapish, Tessa, Judit, Chantel, and Emtee! Welcome to one and all!

Emtee, thanks for that report from the JKR interview. She certainly does thrive on making everyone wait and wonder, doesn't she? LOL

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 11:02:29 AM

Name:

 Emtee

Location:

 US

Comments:

 Emerson S. of Mugglenet and Melissa A. of Leaky Cauldron just posted the first part of their interview with JKR conducted after reading HBP. Melissa asked JKR about Snape . . . .

MA: OK, big big big book six question. Is Snape evil?

JKR: [Almost laughing] Well, you've read the book, what do you think?

ES: She's trying to make you say it categorically.

MA: Well, there are conspiracy theorists, and there are people who will claim -

JKR: Cling to some desperate hope [laughter] -

ES: Yes!

MA: Yes!

ES: Like certain shippers we know!

[All laugh]

JKR: Well, okay, I'm obviously – Harry-Snape is now as personal, if not more so, than Harry-Voldemort. I can't answer that question because it's a spoiler, isn't it, whatever I say, and obviously, it has such a huge impact on what will happen when they meet again that I can't. And let's face it, it's going to launch 10,000 theories and I'm going to get a big kick out of reading them so [laughs] I'm evil but I just like the theories, I love the theories.


Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 10:45:06 AM

Name:

 Chantal

Location:

 Belgium

E-mail address:

 OZ_woman@skynet.be

Comments:

 I'm the only one in my family (two sons of 16 and 13) who's finished reading HP 6 and it’s obvious that I cannot share my feelings about it -disbelief, anger, sadness and even a little bit (?!) of madness- with them. So happy to have found you to share my feelings and found out that most of the AR fans have the same thoughts about it.
I too find this book a very hard one for smaller children: look what it does to us “older and supposed to be wiser” people ?! It left me totally confused and I know we have to wait for a VERY LONG time before we get to read HP 7… but as soon as it gets out I will be reading it and even more quickly than I did HP 6 (12 hours straight), you can be sure of that!

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 09:59:18 AM

Name:

 Sabine

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 Forgot to mention:

Vicky - after you post and go back to the forum, hit your refresh button. Your post should show up then.

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 08:10:08 AM

Name:

 Sabine

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 Hikity - I don't think that the HP books are children's books. I read somewhere that JKR wrote the books more for herself than anything. I guess the publishers are the one's who put them in that category.

martha - I forgot about your suggestions regarding the DADA position (I've been reading so many opinions). Sorry! It's an excellent point and you're probably right on the mark. If Harry is the 6th Horcrux, that means he would have to be destroyed... Can a human being be a Horcrux? Nagini might be one, so it could be done with animals.

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 08:09:08 AM

Name:

 martha

Location:

 work

Comments:

 Something I just read on someone's LJ that makes so much sense, it scares me, because I can't see a way around it. Harry is the 6th Horcrux.


Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 07:46:00 AM

Name:

 martha

Location:

 late for work if she doesn't move her butt

Comments:

 Sabine – As I suggested, couldn’t DD reluctance to have SS in the DADA position be that the job was cursed, and he didn’t want to temp fate and lose the man?

I’m wondering if Fawkes might be the only chance that anyone will believe that SS in not a DE. (You can tell where I stand on this. won’t, won’t, won’t, indeed!)

Still think SS is going to have a fight to save Draco. Both his soul and his body. V will not be pleased with him, and he will not be pleased with himself or Snape.

As for the writing in the Potions book. I thought at once that is was Snape’s, but Harry should have recognized it. I’m sure he’s seen enough snide remarks written on his papers. Of course, handwriting does change a bit, but given that the Prince was outstanding at potions would give Harry a clue, you would think. Although, Harry is very good at not seeing what he doesn’t want to see.

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 06:21:21 AM

Name:

 Barbara

Location:

 New Zealand

Comments:

 I have been hunting around to see if there are any interviews with the HP actors - like Daniel Radcliffe, Emma Watson etc to see what they think of Book 6 but have not found any. Would like to know what they think of the developments.

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 06:04:54 AM

Name:

 Hikity

Location:

 Germany

Comments:

 Sorry, at the moment I have not much time to post messages, e.g. ideas
One thing I would like to share though: My daughter finished HBP yesterday and - to be honest - her reaction was alarming (mind: she is 19). She throw the book on the floor, crying and shouting: this is NOT a children's book and I hate Snape. I wonder why JKR let AD die as he is most probably the most important character for the kids. He is "the house", the "family", kind of father, implies safety above all. It was not her best idea, no

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 04:55:07 AM

Name:

 Elaine

Comments:

 Sabine, I looked for Snape's name in that list, too. Maybe it means something, maybe not.... Maybe it's just JKR being clever....

Tuesday, July 19th 2005 - 12:48:12 AM

Name:

 Vicki

Location:

 Los Angeles

Comments:

 Oh yea!!! My test message finally came through...though there was a bit of a delay.

SO....I finished the book a few hours ago. Whew! I thought it was quite good. I was quite surprised by the Spinner's End chapter. I have never been a believer in the Snape loved Lily Evens theory. But, could Snape have possibly had a crush on Narcissa (Black) Malfoy? I know that he was virtually forced into making the unbreakable vow in order to prove his loyalty to the doubting Bellatrix....but I also got a twinge of something unspoken between him and Narcissa. Was this just my crazy imagination? The nearly inperceptable twitch of his hand before the vow was sealed also hints of something....although I'm not quite sure what just yet. I still have to turn all of this over in my mind to get it straight.

I just cannot believe that Snape is truly evil....don't try to convince me or I'll put my hands over my ears like Kreacher and shout, "...won't, won't, won't!..." Albus Dumbledore is no fool. I think he knows the true Snape. He is a true Slytherin....clever and brave but will not carelessly risk his own neck. If Snape is putting himself in harms' way, it's for a good reason. My theory is that Dumbledore wanted to protect Draco as much as Harry. He does not want to see any more of his students lured over to the dark side. But in order to accomplish this and still maintain Severus' cover, this vow had to be made. It was perfect. It insured that Voldie and the DE's would not doubt his loyalty, guarantee the safety of a student (Draco) and firmly placed Snape in the middle of enemy headquarters for the final book.

I caught on pretty quick who the HBP was....the cramped writing was the give away for me. I remembered this description from the pensieve scene in OotP.

Will Severus survive book 7? I'm not sure. But I am sure that he and Harry will never be friends. Too much bad blood and angry words have passed between them for that to ever happen. If SS is eventually proved innocent and does assist Harry in his final task of vanquishing Voldie, there may be some mutual respect but that will be as far as it will ever go...if our prince actually survives...or Harry for that matter.

I agree with the theories that DD knew that he was dying. The many passages where he is described as looking weary, old, ill, etc. in addition to his injuries pretty much confirms it for me. This was his chance to set up Snape's ultimate cover, allow him a year to teach the subject he has always been denied (because he wouldn't be coming back), and firmly places him in a position to help Harry with his destiny...destroying Voldemort.

The only part that trips up this theory is the other members of the Order of the Phoenix not knowing anything about it......or DO they? Hmmm.....

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 11:17:43 PM

Name:

 Sabine

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 I still think that RAB is Regulus Black, and if it is, he's dead, so unfortunately we would not meet him in the next book. Unless there are flashbacks... hmmm...

Another question JKR was asked: which of her characters would she NOT want to be on a deserted island with? Her response: Lockhart, Umbridge, Voldie, and Vernon Dursley. No mention of Snape. Interesting.

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 10:42:07 PM

Name:

 Vicki

Location:

 Los Angeles

Comments:

 Before I go and post any elaborate theories, I'm going to send this test message and see if the board will finally accept my posts....wish me luck!

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 10:29:11 PM

Name:

 Elaine

Comments:

 Here's a few interesting points. Just been to read the text of the press conference JKR gave to those kids in Edinburgh (on the BBC site). One question was whether Fawkes belonged to anyone else and what role would he play in the next book. JKR said he had only belonged to AD and that she was not going to answer about his role in Bk 7 and that should be a big clue!

The other point was raised in the NBC interview where she was asked about all those bets that had been put on AD being the character who died. JKR said that she had never actually said a MAJOR character was going to die. So what do we make of that?

And lastly, she said in the press conference that there is another member of the OotP that we know about but have not yet met properly but we will in Bk 7. RAB perhaps??

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 10:12:07 PM

Name:

 Sabine

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 Elaine - I really like your thoughts on the "love theme" and also on Draco. I was thinking along similar lines, that Dumbledore was hoping to save Drace and "turn him to the light" so to speak.

I also really loved the way Ginny is evolving. She would be really good for Harry.

And JKR has a wonderful sense of humor. Even though the plot is so serious, she manages to lighten the mood inbetween. It really cracked me up when Luna did the commentary on the Quidditch match. :-)

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 09:47:50 PM

Name:

 Elaine

Comments:

 Re the themes that JKR puts in her books. I love the way she has developed all the characters - especially the way the kids have grown - as the series has benn written. It makes me mad when hard line religious leaders start criticising the books when they obviously have not read a word of them. JKR is very careful not to imply any "religion", and only vaguely refers to some Pagan things as they are used as part of the plot. She sets such good examples of how young people should live their lives though - morally, physically, thoughtfully - that they are far more helpful to kids these days than plain religious texts. And with each year that HP and friends grow older, she writes of the kind of things that other kids of thir age go through eg, the awful angst and bad moods of HP in OotP and now the lurve element in HBP. I see a lot of my son reflected in the characters. It's masterful really.

Talking of love, I am slowly re-reading to pick up any clues but I did think that as AD puts a lot of store on love, then in Chapter 2, we have a prime example of a mother's love for a son - again! This time it is Narcissa and Draco and we even get a bit of love from Snape as he agrees to take part in the Unbrakable Vow for Narcissa. That would require that he has some feeling for her and Draco, as it is a big step to take just to satisy Bellatrix. And in the murder scene, neither AD or Snape could really allow Draco to kill as he is still a child, and once he did the deed, he would be changed forever, not to mention wanted for murder by the whole wizarding community. Now he can be "saved", and as he has already shown a reluctance to fully participate in DE activities, the next interesting thought is what will happen to him? Will Snape really be able to protect him from V?

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 09:36:43 PM

Name:

 Sabine

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 martha - that's a good point that it was the only way to bring Slughorn in. It just surprised me that Dumbledore would do it now after being so reluctant for years.

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 08:39:39 PM

Name:

 judit

Location:

 spain

E-mail address:

 beluna_1@hotmail.com

Comments:

 hello
I am a girl of Spain. I like much Alan rickman.
somebody knows where he lives at the moment?.
if somebody wants to speak with me, my direction of email it is: beluna_1@hotmail.com

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 07:03:15 PM

Name:

 AFNH

Comments:

 Oh, and I think I read in one of the children's interview with JKR, that she said the next book is a couple of years away!

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 04:35:59 PM

Name:

 AFNH

Comments:

 Finished the book in the early hours of this morning, but couldn't sleep afterwards. Boy, has JKR set the scene for an explosive Book 7!
It will be interesting to find out if RAB is Regulus Black. I think that Harry inheriting Grimmauld Place has a big part to play too. Yes, didn't Kreacher keep retrieving things that were going to thrown out? There was one room with quite a few Dark Arts relics there too. Just had another thought - Mundungus Fletcher was thrown into Azkaban in HBP for stealing stuff from 12 GP, wonder if he has the Horcrux, or possibly a few of them?
Looking back at the scene on the Astronomy Tower, even though Dumbledore was weakened by the Potion, it now seems strange to me that he couldn't fight off a few Death Eaters, after all, look what he did in the last book in his own office and then again in the Ministry. As he and Harry were flying in he was disabling the protection around the castle, which would probably have taken quite a few witches/wizards to set up in the first place. The Tower scene, I think, has had a lot more to it than we read.
I guessed early on who the HBP was. Firstly all the crossings out in the original Potions book (very Snape!), and the fact it was in very small, cramped writing. When Harry saw the scene in the Pensieve where his father's year were taking their OWLs, hadn't Snape just completed his paper in small, cramped writing? I remember in one book, where it said that Snape knew more Dark Arts when he arrived than anyone else in the school. He probably wouldn't be afraid to invent his own spells. As for calling Lily a Mudblood, as he was a Slytherin, he had the reputation of his house to uphold, he wouldn't be able to admit that he was half-blood himself.
I have a feeling too, now, that Snape won't survive Book 7. At one point today, I even had the feeling that Harry and Voldemort would cancel each other out (you can tell my mind has been on my work!) Overall, initial impressions of this book were better than the last one, which I found very oppressive first time around. I can't wait to read it again to try to pick up more clues!

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 04:33:07 PM

Name:

 martha

Comments:

 Sabine – I think that in order to bring Slughorne on board, Snape teaching DADA was the only option. I still wonder about the “temptation” thing. Does anyone remember where that is, exactly, in which book? I’m wondering if DDs concern was tempting fate, not tempting Snape, as we now know that the position was indeed cursed. He would not have wanted to endanger Snape.

Any thought on why DD kept referring to Snape as Severus (when speaking to Harry) toward the end? He’s never done that before. Here’s a really left field thought – are they related in some way?

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 04:30:14 PM

Name:

 Alfan

E-mail address:

 Canada

Comments:

 Did anyone else notice that when Snape is talking to Draco after he got caught gate crashing that when he and Draco were agruing that Snape said "ah, what thoughts are you trying to conceal from YOUR master, Draco?" And Draco says back "im not trying to conceal anything from him, i just dont want you butting in------why does Snape refer to Voldemort as your master, why didnt he say OUR master?

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 03:58:37 PM

Name:

 Sabine

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 I have another question for you guys: why do you think Dumbledore finally gave the DADA post to Snape? I think I will have to read the book again to look for more clues on everything. :-)

Claudia - I just wanted to thank you again for creating this forum! It's just so much fun to speculate with everyone! I love reading all theories and comments. :-)

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 03:46:10 PM

Name:

 martha

Location:

 Home

Comments:

 Sabine – That may be just enough of an edge to keep Snape alive. Though, I hate to say it, I’m not holding my breath.

sue - where do you live? ;)

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 03:37:19 PM

Name:

 martha

Location:

 Home now

Comments:

 sue – I don’t try to figure stuff out while I’m reading either. I just read.

I don’t think DD had Snape in an Unbreakable for several reasons.

As I said earlier, it would have meant the presence of a third person which I don’t think either would have allowed.
If Snape had made an UV, there would have been no reason to argue with DD.
If Snape had made an UV, there was no reason for DD to plead with him.
It seems to be much more DDs style to bind people with their word. As he did Harry. I think he knows the power of keeping your word, and wished to convey that power on the others. If Snape were forced by the vow to kill DD, that would condemn Snape and give him nothing. If he killed DD to keep his word, not because he wanted to, not because he thought it was a good idea, simply because he gave his word, that conveys a lot of power to Snape. (As we all know from our own life experiences, yes?)

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 03:33:57 PM

Name:

 Sabine

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 Here's another one of my ideas. :-)
Dumbledore stresses to Harry that Harry's ability to love and the fact that he is loved makes him so different from Voldie and that this is why he has a good chance to defeat Voldie. So, if Snape loved Lily that would make him different from Voldie as well. Is this more proof that Snape is one of the good guys? Or am I totally of my rocker here? :-)

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 02:18:16 PM

Name:

 sue

Location:

 rngland

Homepage URL:

 http://www.livejournal.com/users/fantasteeek/

Comments:

 Just finished 20 minutes ago. Despite seeing the spoiler on Suzannes last night stating that Snape does the deed I was very surprised to find out who the Half Blood Prince was.

I am one of these people who doesn't theorise whilst reading, I just enjoy the tale (thick is another word!LOL) and I am loving everybodies ideas. Haven't had time to read everything here but I def like Michelle's theory with regard to Unbreakable Vows etc. I am sure Snape will be dead by the end of Book 7 but maybe Harry will have a different opinion of him, who knows?

I must admit I could see Tony Blair in the first chapter too.

Something else I thought through out the book was how topical it all was. The fear of the Dark Side who were out murdering innocent people. I also thought JKR handled a lot of themes well too especially the death of Dumbledore and the feelings of young people who have never experienced the death of a loved one before and were at their first funeral.

All in all there was a lot more love flying around than in the last one.
I enjoyed it enormously:)

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 02:02:27 PM

Name:

 Marlina

Location:

 Indonesia

E-mail address:

 alan55rickman@yahoo.co.uk

Homepage URL:

 http://www.xanga.com/alan_rickman_freak

Comments:

 WOW.. Half-Blood Prince is my favourite book now from all the HP series.. Full of Snape/Alan! WOHOHOHO!

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 01:31:52 PM

Name:

 Sabine

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 Okay, I have all these thoughts popping into my head. LOL Maybe the Horcrux is not at Grimmauld Place after all, but Regulus was able to destroy it before he got killed. Then again, why would JKR let him mention in his note to Voldie that he "intends to destroy it as soon as I can." Yes, it is fun to speculate! :-)

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 11:15:33 AM

Name:

 Carol

Location:

 Michigan

Comments:

 I have several thoughts swirling in my head that I will post later on, but one thing just stuck me.

Re: "Now. Who helped RAB get the locket?? DD said that it took two to retrieve it. That means there is another who may know where the locket is, if he/she is still alive."

Maybe...or maybe there's something else going on. Though it takes two to retrieve the locket, does it also take two to hide the locket in the first place? Or just one?

I also believe the initials could very well be Regulus Black's. And we know Regulus Black for sure left the Death Eaters and also that the Death Eaters killed him right away.

But why was Black killed right away? What could he have done that would cause them to do that? Sheer speculation, but could he have been assigned to place the Horcrux in the hiding place, but placed a fake locket instead, then created all the hexes surrounding it, just like he was assigned to do?

But if they found out anyway...well...he'd be an instant goner, of course, especially if the memory of what he'd done with the real Horcrux was altered. (Even Dumbledore cannot retrieve an altered memory against a person's will.)

We have a couple of examples of how Voldie treats traitors. Snape was allowed to return to the Death Eaters, even though Voldie himself said, "He will be killed of course." Like a casual statement, with no sense of time frame or immediacy. And another example---it took them what, a year or two to kill Karkaroff, too.

But something got them really mad at Regulus Black, for he was killed quickly (to silence him once and for all, perhaps, once they realize his memory on the locket could not be recovered?)

Or maybe Snape helped Black. But---if he did, why didn't he just tell Dumbledore what he knew, saving DD from jumping through all the hoops that led to his death?

Man, it's fun to speculate.





Monday, July 18th 2005 - 11:07:35 AM

Name:

 Sabine

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 Hikity - I had the same thought that JKR may have been inspired by some fanfiction. But then I thought that some fanfiction writers just happened to have the same ideas that JKR had all along. Who knows! LOL

I was wondering as well if the Horcrux would be at Grimmauld Place...

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 10:46:58 AM

Name:

 Lucy

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 I keep wondering: was it the Avada Kedavra or the fall from the ramparts that killed D-dore?

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 08:41:09 AM

Name:

 martha

Location:

 work

Comments:

 Interesting thought that the locket will be at 12 Grimmauld Place. Could Krearcher have hidden it in his "nest?"

Now. Who helped RAB get the locket?? DD said that it took two to retrieve it. That means there is another who may know where the locket is, if he/she is still alive.

Snape is now placed to get info on the Horcruxes, however, he's going to have to convince Harry to trust him is he's going to help. Good luck. Even if he loved Lily, I don't think Harry is going to want to hear that, nor do I think Snape would be that anxious to tell him.

As for the Pensieve, all DDs memories aren't there. Only the ones, if any, that he chose to keep there.

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 07:53:49 AM

Name:

 Ricky

Location:

 Austria

Comments:

 Haven't got the book yet, but already read all the spoilers here and at Susan's and and and ;o)
Also read through all the chapters at the English version of Wikipedia.

IMO it is everything a plot between A.DD and SS. It mustn't be that he is that bad. I can't believe she is falling in that black and white-thing, so many other authors are. A.DD = white, HP = whit, SS = now deeply black (again). There are more shades between IMO.

Well, I'm not only looking forward to my copy of the book, but also very much at the film, whenever it will be released/made.

Wish you all a wonderful day.
Ricky

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 07:00:24 AM

Name:

 Hikity

Location:

 Germany

Comments:

 I am convinced that our Snape will be a very important character in the last book and that he never "killed" DD (and may be DD is not dead, as mentioned before - btw a very interesting theory con. Trelawny etc). How long do we have to wait for book 7 ?? And Claudia, is it possible to keep this message board "alive" until HP7 is out in order to be able to compare our ideas with JKR's final dicisions?
And another BTW: don't you have a feeling that JKR was a litte inspired by some fanfiction?? I was really astonished about some outcome I thought I have known already, :):)

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 04:29:16 AM

Name:

 Michelle

Location:

 England

Comments:

 I love the way most of us refuse to give up on Snape. Its almost like we are defending ARs reputation.LOL.My protective feelings for him were around long before the films were cast though and I really would hate to be wrong . I duess only time and JKR will tell.

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 03:19:21 AM

Name:

 Mary

Location:

 Warwick, RI

Comments:

 After my daughter spent a good part of Sunday theorizing, I thumbed through HBP to reread various parts.. and I have to say that I don't believe Dumbledore is the character who dies. I don't believe Snape performed the Avada Kedavra curse.. what I do believe is that there had been some plan between them in case Snape had to prove himself, or because Snape had told him about the plan involving Draco and having to pledge an Unbreakable... JKR always seems to plant some clues.. perhaps Snape performed a nonverbal spell, and only uttered "Avada Kedavra" as a cover???



That Dumbledore fell off the ramparts seems strange in itself.. and the locket that is found by Harry with the note that claims it was taken by an R.A.B... perhaps a distraction to draw Voldemort and the Deatheater's attention OR to force Voldemort to check the true location of the real locket.. allowing Dumbledore (or whomever) to learn it's true location? All supposition on my part.. but I can't help my, "what if's" :)



Consider that Voldemort will feel emboldened to act far more openly if he believes DD is out of the way.. that Snape appearing to have killed DD will remove any vestiges of doubt Voldemort and the Deatheaters might still have about him. Snape being trusted by the Deatheaters and Voldemort, means he will be privy to much more information that would be of help to Dumbledore (if he truly is still alive) in finally defeating Voldemort.


Frankly, because one knows a character is going to die, does not mean we'll find out who that character is.. especially if it helps the plot line. I do believe I know who actually died at the end, my guess is Professor Trelawny.



We know that Harry left Professor Trelawny in the hallway not too far away from Dumbledore's office, telling her to stay there. As she was tipsy, she might have remained in the area, and fallen victim to the Deatheaters when they started the attack. We do know that she has not been mentioned at all since Harry left her in the hallway. Not even in attendance of Dumbledore's funeral. Ginny Weasley is the one who says that no one else died.. but she might not have known in all the confusion... also, Trelawny tends to be reclusive (except of late in the story), so her not being about isn't going to be noticed immediately.


Monday, July 18th 2005 - 01:27:15 AM

Name:

 Sabine

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 Okay, I'm adding my two cents. :-)

RAB - I think that this is Regulus Black as well.

Snape killing Dumbledore - I believe, as so many of you do as well, that Dumbledore asked Snape to kill him and that this is why Snape looked so full of hatred and was so furious. As somebody mentioned before, Snape could have easily stupefied Harry and taken him with him to Voldemort. Since he didn't, I still like to believe that Snape is on the good side. I think there really is something to this whole Snape and Lily thing.

I'm not sure if anybody has mentioned this yet, since I just didn't have time to read all the posts, so please forgive me if this has been said before: Snape could use his memories to prove that Dumbledore asked Snape to kill him if indeed they also made an Unbraekable Vow. That still leaves him with a murder on his hands, but maybe the Wizengamot will show some leniency.

I have to say that I expected Dumbledore to die, but I still got very emotional anyway. I have to keep reminding myself that it's just a book. LOL

So, how long do we have to wait for book 7?????

Monday, July 18th 2005 - 12:42:23 AM

Name:

 TSO

Comments:

 I just read your message SARF and I think that DD's pensieve will be very important in the next book. Maybe this is where they will find out why DD trusted Snape so much.

Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 11:12:03 PM

Name:

 TSO

Comments:

 RAB: Definitely, Regulas Black. Didn't it say somewhere in the first part of the book that Regulas left the death eaters and that's why he was killed?

So many thing's are swimming in my head.

I will adamantly believe that Snape is on the good side, until JK proves to me beyond a shadow of a doubt otherwise and even then I might not believe it.

Like so many other's here, I believe that Snape and DD made some sort of pact like a promise that would require Snape to kill DD in the end. That's what I think Hagrid overheard Snape and DD arguing about. I think Snape was saying "I thought I could, but I can't, I can't kill you" and then DD reminding him that he made a promise and he must keep it, they can't go back now.
Anyway that's the way I interpreted it.

What's interesting, is the unbreakable vow Snape and Cissy have. If Voldemort hurt's Draco, which I think he will try and kill him, then will Snape die? He swore with the vow that he would protect Draco whatever the cost. Maybe even protecting him against Voldemort.
I honestly believe that Snape care's as much for Draco as DD did for Harry.

Also one of the reason's why I still believe Snape to be on the good side, is that in this book JK remind's us several time's how intelligent DD really is.
DD had a very good reason to trust Snape as JK's been telling us throughout all the book's, I don't think it was just because Snape was somewhat responsible for the Potter's death's, there had to be another reason for the trust. I know DD admitted that he make's mistakes like every one else but... It just seem's,to me, that it would lessen DD's intelligence and that he would also be lessened to a very foolish character, half the character he is if it turn's out he was wrong about this one.

Someone on one of the other board's( I think it could have been Darkmark.com) think's that Harry will kill Snape and then find out later that he (Snape) truly was on the good side all along. I hope not, I hope Snape doesn't die but I think it's a very good theory and very plausible.

I think someone here (Martha?)said that it was funny how Snape was still trying to teach Harry to protect himself even through all that was happening around them. I just wanted to say that that was the first thing that came to mind when I first read the passage in the book.
I think that Snape knew that he was going to have to flee and that everything would be blamed on him and he might never see Harry again so he was trying to give Harry one last bit of advise to defeat Voldemort.


I know that was all rambling and didn't make sense but right now alot of thing's don't make sense in my mind.

Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 11:09:27 PM

Name:

 SARF

Location:

 NZ

Comments:

 Whoa! Everybody's been busy, haven't they?


RAB - I also think that this is Regulus Black. I need to check in Book 4, and have a look at the Black family tree. Maybe it will show us that his middle name begins with A. I think that he grew some b*lls toward the end and decided to do what he could to destroy Voldemort.


Horcruxes - If RAB is Regulus Black, then, chances are, that the Horcrux is in the Black residence. Does anybody have any recollection of JKR mentioning a locket in the Black household?


Lupin - Lupin's got a girlfriend! Lupin's got a girlfriend! I'm so happy for him and Tonks!


Memories - Who would get DD pensieve. We know that memories don't die with a person - as DD managed to get a memory from LV uncle (I forgot his name; M-something?). This means that all of DD memories are still 'alive.' I think that DD pensieve would be extremely valuable to the OotP and to HP

Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 09:47:00 PM

Name:

 Aurora

Comments:

 This is really my last post for today. There's other stuff that needs attention, but you know....
It's all ultimately unknowable for 2 more years, so can't worry too much about which theories turn out right. I'm not married to any of them. Now I keep thinking of more questions:
1. RAB. If it is Regulus Black, it could prove quite handy that Harry has inherited 12 Grimmauld Place. Might be useful stuff hidden there. But people don't seem to describe Regulus as somebody with a lot of gumption, which this RAB clearly has. I don't have any better suggestions, however.
2. What happens to DD's pensieve now that he's dead? I suppose that when the person dies, the thoughts do, too. Still, one wonders. And won't DD have a will? Has he left anything to Harry?
3. And of course, he's still around in his portrait in the Headmaster's office. He can provide a lot of help that way, unless the new Head is an idiot. I do hope McGonagall is the new Head.
4. Will Harry please give Sirius' fortune to Lupin? The poor guy needs something to live on, and I've been hoping he and Tonks would get together.
5. But did Harry repeat Sirius' mistake with Kreacher when he told Kreacher to "get out of it?"

OK, I'm quitting here.

Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 08:15:59 PM

Name:

 Dee

Location:

 Indiana

Comments:

 Martha -- (eyes burning) It's a relief to be able to confess that here, isn't it! Just try explaining our obscession tomorrow to friends and co-workers!

Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 08:04:22 PM

Name:

 martha

Comments:

 *Nuts*

As for the thought of Snape helping Harry with the Horcruxes, well... "But I forgot – another old man's mistake – that some wounds run too deep for the healing. I thought Professor Snape could overcome his feelings about your father – I was wrong." OotP.
So. Guess DD wasn't planning on any great reconciliation, huh? (Although he was an optimist.)

*Nuts*

As for some of it being predictable, I think that's due to two reasons (at least).
1) She has laid her groundwork meticulously, and
2) We have studied the books to such a degree that we (almost) know how she thinks.

Why the big deal over the title? Well, the Potion’s textbook played a huge part in the story. And it did belong to Snape. Maybe she just used HBP 'cause it was a catchy name? (Right!)

Dee – well done! Yes, my eyes burned after 12 hours of reading. And I didn’t sleep well because my mind was too busy trying to process everything. And think up reasons why Snape couldn't be evil.

Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 07:47:08 PM

Name:

 Dee

Location:

 Indiana

Comments:

 Whew! I wrestled the new book away from my son (he's 14 and 6'1" tall - it was like wrestling Hagrid!) and finished it this afternoon. Don't know about the rest of you, but after a weekend of power-reading, my eyeballs burn!

I'm thrilled Snape has a much bigger role in this book than the last (of course I was hoping that she'd have him dash out of his room naked just once...!). Snape will obviously be vital to the end of the series.

Unless someone comes up with a really convincing argument, I have to agree with those who think Snape is still a "good" guy (okay...he's not "good", but against evil). In this fight against V, the kindly DD was ruthless. In the other books, he repeatedly\remorsefully "used" Harry. In this book, DD again makes Harry promise to do whatever needs to be done. I think DD forced Snape to make the same type of promise. And just like Harry agonized over forcing DD to drink, Snape agonized over killing him (His scream, "Don't call me a coward!").

I also wonder why such a big deal was made out of the "Half Blood Prince" thing. Was the author trying to throw everyone off track (after all, what's the big deal that Snape's mother's maiden name was "Prince"?) or will Snape's new title mean something deeper in the next book?

Some of it was predictable, but I believe that it IS classified as "Young Adult fiction". And even though I left "young" adult behind years ago, I really enjoyed it!

Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 07:15:11 PM

Name:

 martha

Comments:

 More thoughts.

When DD said that Snape couldn’t have the DADA job, exactly how was that worded? Or do we have one of the kids versions? I wonder if rather than Snape being tempted, it was fate he was worried about tempting? The job was cursed.

*sigh*

Maybe I just don’t want to believe Snape is evil. But why would JKR name a book after him? Why is that chapter titled, “Flight of the Prince?” One thing I am SURE of, and that is that JKR will NOT change a word just to please the Snape fans. She has said the last chapter is written. She has said she won’t change the books to please the fans. She has said she modeled Snape after a teacher she hated.

*Nuts*

Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 06:59:07 PM

Name:

 Julie

Location:

 Michigan

Comments:

 Well, I finished it about half an hour ago, and then rushed here to read your comments.

I actually cried when Snape did the dirty deed. I kept thinking someone had drunk some Poly-juice, and it couldn't have really been him. After reading your comments, I'm left with a tiny smattering of hope. Maybe it was part of Dumbledore's plan somehow. I don't want to spend the next two years thinking he could have been so evil.

But I'm with Martha. Until I read the final page of the final book, I'm not convinced yet.

Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 06:24:05 PM

Name:

 martha

Comments:

 Aurora - How the h*ll is Harry supposed to proceed in finding the Horcruxes? Gee, who might know... Or if he doesn’t know, who is now in a position to find out? Let me think...

I think DD was pleading with Snape to do what he knew he must, no matter how much he hated to. Would also explain the hatred on Snape’s face.

You know, they talk about the confusion of the battle, but Tonks said they were losing. They saw Snape, then they didn’t, then they did. Lot’s of smoke and confusion. But they didn’t lose, and no Order member, or student was killed. Hmmm...

As for Snape calling Lily a Mudblood. Well, if she had rejected him, he may called her that just to hurt her. She may not have known he was a half-blood.

And of COURSE JKR is being ambiguous! It’s one of the things she does best.

Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 06:13:39 PM

Name:

 martha

Comments:

 Well, Carol, we are going to disagree. lol!

I think DD wanted Snape in Hogsmeade because Snape was (again) the only one who could save him. I doubt that he wanted to die any sooner than he had to, and I think he knew life wouldn’t go well for Draco if he did die on his own. (But why didn't he tell Harry to use his Patronus to call Snape? Maybe there was a trick to it that he wasn't up to teaching him.)

Why didn’t DD tell anyone about Snape’s Unbreakable Vow? Why would he? He wouldn’t want them interfering. If there was a contingency plan that Snape would kill DD, do you think the others wouldn’t try to stop it? Or, if they were caught by a DE, their minds could be read, and that would put Snape on the top of Vs "to do" list.

Once they were on the tower, once Draco was facing DD, the plan changed. DD had no fear of Draco. He had no fear of the DEs. He was NOT (IMO) pleading with Snape for his life, or for Snape to redeem himself. He wanted Snape to kill him. Why? Snape had made the vow to do so. But, killing tears the soul. Now, what if killing to save another, at the request of the victim, is different? Even if not, would DD use Snape, condemn him to a life of solitude and being hunted? Hell yes! Look what he’s been prepping Harry for. I think DD would sacrifice a lot – himself at the top of the list – to defeat V. And I think Snape is the only one he trusted to have what it takes to do the job.

I'm still trying to figure why Snape intercepted Tonk's Patronus to Hagrid, though. I was stated that Hagrid wasn't that late to the hall.

And no one has any thought on RAB???

Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 05:59:52 PM

Name:

 Aurora

Comments:

 Oooh, it's so much fun to speculate. Yay! I'm glad to see different sides presented, and a lot of people know their HP texts in detail. Martha said: You need a 3rd person to bond the parties to an unbreakable charm. True. I wasn't paying attention in Charms class. I think there is a lot of value to the very old idea that SS loved Lily. We've known from the start she was good at charms, but we learn in HBP that she was wizard at Potions. Nothing like it to inspire the admiration of a guy like SS, even if she was a Mudblood. ("Oh, tortured me, how could I degrade myself with feelings for such a creature?") She didn't start going out with James until 7th year. If SS had enoyed some hope before that, his disappointment would have been all the greater, and the same for his regret when he learns he sent Voldy after the Potters.

OTOH, that little detail about the hatred in SS's eyes does seem telling, and DD's "Severus" could mean, "Don't go over to the dark side," not "Please don't kill me." It's delicious how JKR makes her dialogue so ambiguous. She couldn't have DD say something more explicit than, "Severus?" Nah, that would be no fun.

Besides the question of DD's death, I've been wondering about the title. Why is Snape the title character? Among the other book titles, only POA refers to a specific person, and that person turned out to be someone who helped fill the emotional void in Harry's life. Come to think of it, POA is the only book where we don't really learn much new about Voldemort. The whole learning experience is learning about his father. We learn tons about V in HBP and really very little about SS, in spite of his old Charms book. We also learn that HP's quest in Book 7 has to be to destroy the horcruxes. Surely that's really big. Why don't they get into the title? But SS's departure from Hogwarts is important enough that one of the last chapters is "Flight of the Prince."

Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 05:55:37 PM

Name:

 Elaine

Comments:

 Carol, your points are very valid indeed and well put. I am trying to keep an open mind and tend to side with the idea that AD and SS had this all planned somehow - but only because I want Snape to be a "goody". In fact, because of things that JKR has said in the past, I also think that Snape has probably chosen evil. It pains me to say it, but if I think the worst, if anything better happens, then I will be happy. There is still that question which has not really been answered properly and that is, why did Dumbledore trust Snape?

Yes, it is the role of a lifetime and it must be very hard for AR to decide whether to keep on taking it because I get the feeling he has a "love-hate" relationship with Snape. However, he also has a high regard for the feelings of the children that come to watch the movies and I don't think he will want to disappoint them. ANd it means he will be set up for life - able to pick and choose whatever he wants to do, (as if he doesn't already!)

Severina, while I'm not completely happy with the Snape/Harry ship, I thought the points in that post were very thought provoking. Thank you for sharing.I am sure - whatever happens - that there is a link between Snape and Harry and it is crucial to the end of the story.

Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 05:40:55 PM

Name:

 Carol

Location:

 Michigan

Comments:

 WARNING: MAJOR SPOILERS FOLLOW---plus an alternative opinion!

DO NOT READ if you have not read the book yet!

- - -

Once again, be warned: I believe Snape has indeed gone over to the bad side, if in fact he ever truly left. In saying this, I don't want to depress anyone---that's not my intention.

In fact, I believe Alan would be terrific within the following scenario below. I wonder if has adamantly avoided negative roles patially because he knew this was coming---and knew it could be very big, perhaps even so big that it could typecast him for the rest of his life. Perhaps he is still deciding if he'll even do it, in fact.

To begin, I read someone else's comments regarding The Incident---basically, she said that she found it to be very mysterious. For example, DD already wants Snape's help in Hogsmeade. Does he wants Snape to kill him, in hopes of placing Snape right at Voldemort's side as a spy? Or does he want Snape to save him, just as he has before, which seems to make a great deal of sense?

In response, I told her that I'm not sure it's a mystery at all. I think Hogsmeade provides a clue that Snape has indeed turned evil. Although it's complicated, this is why:

1) First think about the reactions of Lupin, McGonagall and all of the other Order members to Snape's actions. If Dumbledore did learn of Snape's "Unbreakable Vow" and set up his own potential pre-arranged death as a "just in case" alternative to save Snape and/or Draco---then why didn't Dumbledore tell anyone else?

If Dumbledore didn't confide in a trusted Order member about this "arrangement" beforehand---and from their reactions, he did not---then the theory that 'Dumbledore saved Snape so he would still be useful to the Order as a spy' gets blown out of the water. Of what use is Severus now to the Order? Who in the Order would ever trust him again, no matter how smooth and silky his 'explanation'? And what would Snape's life be at this point going forward?

And if Dumbledore tells no one about the pre-arrangement, he would realize all this beforehand. Why would he ever want Snape to “do the deed” and secure his place as Voldemort’s right hand, and be trapped there? Wouldn't that be the very last thing Dumbledore would actually want, after he kept Snape from teaching Defense against the Dark Arts for so many years?

2) Now a bit of sheer speculation: There's a possibility that Dumbledore is using Snape as an unwitting 'trojan' of sorts and that he'd pre-planned something like that all along. Something magical, so that if Snape indeed turned sides, it would act as kind of an insurance policy. To me, something like that is more plausible, if Dumbledore was indeed the greatest wizard in the world. That would be a nice twist to book 7: The evil in Snape contributing to the defeat of evil Voldemort, with Dumbledore triumphing in the end.

3) Now, stepping back into the Half-Blood Prince---after arriving in Hogsmeade, my belief is that Dumbledore needs Snape because Snape is extremely gifted in Potions, and evidently Healing as well. I think that Dumbledore, having imbibed a Dark potion, simply needs the help that he felt only Snape could give. It just plain makes sense.

But consider the other possibility: Dumbledore knows of Snape's vow and wants him in Hogsmeade to kill him, to save both Snape and Draco, since he's dying anyway. There are a couple of problems with this.

First, Harry would be a witness to the killing---and remember, Dumbledore has evidently informed none of the Order of the 'pre-arranged killing.'

And furthermore, Snape is only to kill Dumbledore if it seems Draco cannot. They are <>iclearly under orders from Voldie, and Snape has made his own vow with Narcissa. The problem is, Draco has not yet confronted Dumbledore. So this alternative does not seem likely at all.

4) Moving forward to the incident on top of the castle: Think about when Draco arrives. Dumbledore knows in an instant that Draco will not and cannot kill him. He is not at all afraid. He doesn't plead a bit. Dumbledore is his typical self, and quite calm. He knows that Draco is in danger, but is trying to explain to Draco his plans for Draco's escape.

Then think about when Snape arrives. Dumbledore knows in an instant that Snape can and will kill him. In an instant, Dumbledore sees how Snape does nothing to fight the Death Eaters---not even a simple stunning spell (and he knows a real Order member would fight to the death no matter the circumstances.)

Instead, Snape's eyes sweep the scene; he sees Draco, the Death Eaters, and interestingly, the werewolf, and he does nothing to attack any of them (not even the werewolf.) Dumbledore see all this too, of course. Instantly, he knows Snape will betray him---and that is when he begins to plead. I believe he is pleading either for mercy, or for Serverus to not choose evil.

5) For you see, there is a problem with the ethics surrounding Dumbledore and Snape pre-arranging Dumbledore's "murder." One thing we have learned for sure is that Dumbledore truly is a good guy. And we learn in chapter 23 that "Killing rips the soul apart." Would good guy Dumbledore really go along with a plan to have Snape kill him in order to save Snape and Draco's mortal lives (a temporary problem in JKR's universe)---if the cost meant Snape's soul being ripped apart (evidently for eternity)? Dumbledore has told Voldemort himself that there are worse things than death; I believe that eventually we will learn that this is right at the top of the list.

6) Finally, the words 'hatred and revulsion' the JKR writes of are extremely important. I think we are seeing Snape's true feelings at last. This is why: Remember when Voldie killed Cedric Diggory? It was sudden and emotionless, so she could have chosen to have Snape show no emotion at all. Certainly, lack of emotion would have been just as impressive to the observing Death Eaters. But I think JKR did that deliberately to show the truth about Snape. And remember Bella's words in OOTP about Unforgivables: "You need to mean them, Potter! You need to really want to cause pain---to enjoy it..."

Now, if I have depressed or offended anyone by any of the above, I am sorry. Keep in mind that JKR may come up with the greatest plot twist of all in book 7. She is a master at both clues and red herrings; this could be the biggest red herring of all. She may also still find a way to redeem him. The story is far from over, but right nowm, I do believe Snape has chosen evil.

I also believe that she has handed Alan the role of a lifetime. It's all his if he wants it, right on a golden platter. Yes, Snape seems horrible---but this book is THE book. As upsetting as all of the above is (and I too am upset at my own conclusions) I do hope he will seriously consider taking this part.

One last thing: I have already read many, many arguments that are directly opposite of much of what I have said here. Many of them make excellent points. I know we will all continue to discuss this in the weeks and months ahead---probably right up to the day that book seven is released.

Also, I do see fanfiction going on, perhaps now more than ever. A lot of fanfiction will automatically become AU of course, but AU has been a driving force in fanfic for years, long before Harry Potter. So once the shock settles, we may in fact see lots of interesting things.

Sorry this this so long Claudia---I didn't mean to grab all your space!

Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 05:06:16 PM

Name:

 SeverinaSnape

Location:

 London

Comments:

 Elaine - I am one of those sad people who always reads the ending first LOL! HP is no exception. For me it doesnt detract from the story - after all there is so much detail - even in the spoiler forums I am following people are picking up on different things. I am very much looking forward to getting my book delivered at work tomorrow - now whether or not I will actually DO any work is another story LOL!

I offer you this as posted by SnapesToy at the Evil Twin Corp Site - even though it is in the context of Slash - the overall observations are very relevent I think.

http://etc.slashcity.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=148

"Dumbledore and Snape know what is at stake. Know what must be done. Are willing to pay the price. Have the capacity to not flinch back, the strength of will to act when the hour is darkest, when the need is greatest, when the stakes are highest.

Did you notice that throughout this book, again, as in every book, Snape pushes Harry, pushes him harder to learn, and protects him again and again? Hit him with one curse, stands there and brushes off Harry's curses, hits him only once, and stops the other Death Eaters from touching him?

And Snape is in such deep cover now - having convinced Bellatrix with the Unbreakable Vow (and do you really think that Dumbledore didn't know?), how could anyone deny the loyalty of the man who killed Dumbledore?

Snape has this year been appointed Defence Against the Dark Arts teacher, something he's wanted for a long, long time according to OotP. And the position's cursed - Dumbledore has known that for years. When Snape told Dumbledore about the Unbreakable Vow, they knew it was time to get all the cards on the table, to be ready to make the biggest play of all.

No, this is a deeper game that Snape and Dumbledore play, for the highest stakes of all.

And Harry can learn that. Learn it as he's forced to learn competence in the face of great danger. Learn that the world is full of shades of grey, and that things are not what they seem. Learn that love can be a weakness and a strength - that it brings fear and great courage.

He can learn to forgive Snape for having the courage to do what must be done.

Because he's going to have to do it himself. We've seen the start of it right here. Harry feeds Dumbledore more and more of the potion. He walks away from Ginny.

He's Dumbledore's man, and so is Snape. They can be together.

This ship has always been a complex one, a difficult one to sail, and never one for travelling in smooth waters.

Harry has always hated Snape - hated him with a passion, and now that passion burns brighter, higher.

The Snape/Harry corner of the fandom can rejoice. JKR has given us a wondrous gift

She's making Snape and Harry equals.

Harry must learn, must learn to fight, must learn to sacrifice everything, must stand when there's nothing else to stand with. Harry is learning the lessons of Snape and Dumbledore, and he can be a man with them, a man to be proud of, a man Severus can be proud to be with.

Not just the boy who lived but the man who's walked through the fire of grief and hatred and despair, and the man who can stand by Severus' side.

Our ship sails, and she's never been a ship for calm waters. Interesting times lie ahead, Harry.

Sail proudly with her."





Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 04:45:06 PM

Name:

 SeverinaSnape

Location:

 London

Homepage URL:

 http://www.livejournal.com/users/nativemoon

Comments:

 Well - while its definately true that AR isnt necessarily committed to do all the films - for me there has to be a compelling reason why he agreed to take on the character of Snape in the first instance. After all - he was still turning down other roles that cast him as the villain and that has not changed. Tim Roth was only offered the role because Columbus and Heyman didnt think AR would agree to it - but JKR won out and got her man in the end after having that talk with him...so it begs asking...what did she say that convinced him to do it...

I dont believe Snape is either wholly good or evil - he is almost dangerously complex. But I do believe that DD and Snape had a plan and were prepared for every contingency - including DD having to possibly die for the greater good. Snape is the only person in DD's circle that would be prepared to follow DD's orders and do the unthinkable - even when necessary...as far as the trust because of Snape's remorse - well I have think it would take more than that to earn DD's trust. As far as loving Lily - now that it it has been revealed that Snape is actually a Half-Blood (like Voldie and Harry) - its interesting that he called Lily a 'mudblood' in their 5th year...somehow JKR has to address that...

Re the whole Snape Manor thing: I never bought into Snape being wealthy. Even in my own fics he was usually working-class, poor and living in a not very nice part of town - I always thought he either came from the North - where you see a lot of neighborhoods like Spinner's End, or Wales. The only concessions I have made on occasion is to put him in a cottage and only once in a nice house (his secret wife in that story wouldn never raise their children in a ramshackle terrace house in an abandoned neighborhood *grins*). But the working class thing - I got that angle truthfully from the first film when I saw AR with fingerless gloves - which my English father-in-law told me at the time tended to be something one saw mainly with the working class back in the day...people thought I was off my rocker...but I have to say I am feeling pleased LOL!! AR had a lot of input into his portrayal (when does he not) so again - for me that was a tip-off.

Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 04:36:03 PM

Name:

 Palabra

Comments:

 Well for what it's worth - here's my two cents.

Snape has now gone - no-one, apparently, believes he is innocent - not even McGonagall - he is completely friendless - in a way that Harry has never been.

During the funeral - or whatever - of Dumbledore - Harry thought he saw a white phoenix fly joyfully into the blue sky. I think he did. Dumbledore has now completed his Gandalf transformation - which required being killed before he died of whatever that poison was. He is now in a powerful position.

I agree about the redemptive quality in the story. It's heavily hinted at in Book 5 - where Dumbledore talks about the power which Harry has that Voldemort knows not - that of love. Harry still blames Snape for Sirius' death - conveniently allowing him to bypass his own feelings of guilt on the subject. At least now he's starting to recognize that. In order to come full circle to the complete and compassionate human being he needs to be to defeat Voldemort, Harry is going to have to do 2 things. He has to forgive himself for what he sees as his own hand in Sirius' death - and he has to forgive Snape for Snape's hand in Harry's parents' death.

I think Snape will return and find Harry. Dumbledore indicated that Harry's parents' death was possibly the greatest regret of Snape's life. Snape and Harry have to reconcile for the showdown with Voldemort. Harry has to forgive Snape - and Snape has to accept that forgiveness. I think it will take the two of them to get to and finally defeat, Voldemort. I think it will take the Golden Trio to do it too - look at how JKR points out the way that Hermione and Ron stand either side of Harry. Snape never had that. Snape however, will be instrumental in the whole thing.

I note that we still don't know Snape's patronus or boggart. I think that his patronus may be the key as to why Dumbledore trusted him. Remember what was said about Tonks - and her change in Patronus - after some great emotional upheaval. I think Snape's patronus changed after Harry's parents' death.

I don't believe for one moment that Snape is evil - I think he's following Dumbledore's plan.

Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 04:12:11 PM

Name:

 martha

Location:

 same place

Comments:

 Oh, yes. About Snape not being a bad guy just because AR took the part? Remember, he has not agreed to do all the movies.

Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 03:24:53 PM

Name:

 martha

Location:

 north of here

Comments:

 On rethinking, I don't think DD had an Unbreakable with Snape. There would have had to have been a third person present to bind them, and I don't think either wanted that. I think DD trusted Snape because Snape's remorse came from the Potters destruction. DD always said the strongest force was love. Well Snape hated James, but what about Lily? I hate to say it, but I'm thinking those who said Snape loved her may have been right. Snape may have been able to act/Occlumens his way out of a lot, but I don't think he could have faked love well enough to fool DD.

Also, come on guys, who’s RAB?? How about Sirius’ younger brother?

Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 03:23:27 PM

Name:

 Elaine

Comments:

 And finally - sorry to everyone else who postulated all these theories as well. I'm in such a rush after finishing the book. Too lazy to scroll down ALL the posts. Seems like we are all hoping for Snape to be the goody in the end, though. And JKR knows that, so will she comply? I guess we have to be prepared for him to meet his end in Bk 7. Let's hope it's a good one!

Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 11:07:56 AM

Name:

 Elaine

Comments:

 SeverinaSnape, I'm sorry but I had not read your post in my eagerness to "unload". I think your points about AR taking on the role are very valid and echo mine about his comment on the red carpet. Ah well, we shall see.(I admire you though, how can you read the spoilers without reading the book? It would drive me mad!)

Just a thought - I wonder how the Fan Fic will go now? So much of it has just been blown out of the window - especially the "Snape Manor" cliche which made me chuckle to myself. The whole fan fic universe will be going mad! And it intrigues me to see how much of it HAS echoed the book. All the Harry/Ginny things for a start. Life is strange!

Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 11:03:47 AM

Name:

 Elaine

Comments:

 Now I've finally finished, I'm here! I think we all knew it was going to be Dumbledore in the end. All those people in Norfolk or wherever it was could not have made the bets for nothing!

Michele, I like your ideas and they could actually be the way that JKR means to go.

I must say that for the first time, I actually caught on to what was going to happen right from the second chapter. It just seemed the logical thing bearing in mind that I had unintentionally caught a spoiler about AD being the one who died. HP still infuriates me in that he never seems to do what he's told! (Snape is right there!) And I have felt all along that Snape was the HBP! I'm really glad about that actually. There were a lot of clues to it. Why was HP so dumb that he couldn't figure it out?

And the big question that still needs to be answered, is why did AD trust Snape in the first place? I think everything hangs on that question. Just saying he was sorry for killing someone he loathed anyway was not really good enough for AD to believe and trust hin so explicitly.

I keep thinking about that point you made Melissa. If Snape was still working for AD, he must have told AD about the Unbreakable Vow and what he had to do so AD would know that he had to die in the end. Did he then start his search for the Horcruxes? Did he realise he was going to die from that potion anyway? Remember, he asked HP to fetch SS when they got back from the cave? Why ask for him and not Madame Pomfrey?

I could go on and on as more questions come to mind. I guess we'll just have to wait for another 2 years or whatever until the last book comes out.

But what I'm looking forward to is the film. BIG part for AR!!! Which leads me on to another question. AR was asked at the NY prem if he knew what was going to happen. He said that he would never tell but we have to wonder why he is always saving the "trio". Now we know JKR has given him some info on his character. Interesting. Is he a goodie in the end, or evil through and through?

Well back to normal life I guess. But I think I'll just start reading it again....

Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 10:55:37 AM

Name:

 Aurora

Comments:

 What a thrilla! Wow!
Vayda, I don't understand how you can like spoilers, but the info you asked for is in ch 23, Horcruxes. Am I strange in that I NEVER skip to the last page or skim the last chapters to get a sneak peek of the ending? I want my story to unfold and surprise me in due course.

Michelle, good idea about a second Unbreakable Curse. When JKR introduces a new concept, it does always turn out to be significant in some other way. (And I always get caught by surprise. :)

I like the theory that Snape was following a prearranged plan with DD. It did seem that there was a reason behind DD’s so carefully passing on to Harry everything that Harry would need to carry on without him. In the “confrontation and explanation†scene at the end of OotP, doesn’t DD intimate that he needs to stay around long enough to see that Harry is fully prepared? That training Harry is his task, and it’s nearly over? I think that, for that reason, a lot of people predicted DD’s death as one of the most likely outcomes of Book 6.

Strangely, I did not experience the horrible emotional shock at that point that I felt when Sirius died in Book 5. Maybe it was because the possibility of DD’s death had been planted, whereas Sirius’ death came out of the blue, at least for me. This time, I was fearing Hagrid’s death more, and I think I would have found that more wrenching. Seeing Hagrid—or Ron, or Hermione—die would have seemed crueller. Their ties to Harry are more emotional, where DD’s ties to Harry have more to do with respect and admiration, learning the craft of wizardry. It would have been more awful for him once again to lose someone he * loves * deeply. I freaked out in ’03 driving down the Interstate listening to OotP when I thought JKR had killed off Arthur Weasley, only to find she had given him a reprieve and the real death hadn’t come yet. Just imagine, I thought, the effect on the Weasley family. Arthur is so real, so down to earth. By comparison, DD is such a paragon that he does seem destined for noble sacrifice. I notice JKR used the “No, this is not it yet†trick again this time with Ron’s near-death experience.

And chapter 2! JKR has been reading the “Cruel Snape†fanfics. I can literally see and hear a certain Mr. Rickman playing that scene. If there’s a turnabout in Book 7, everybody can get their Snape fantasy onscreen but still get the good guy in the end


Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 09:03:06 AM

Name:

 Vayda

Comments:

 I'm in the middle of reading the book but I love spoilers! Can someone tell me which chapter did Dumbledore explains how his hand got injured? Thanks!


Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 06:04:37 AM

Name:

 Michelle

Location:

 England

Comments:

 Oh my God! I've just finished reading the book and I can't quite channel all my emotions just yet so this is probably going to make little sense. Here goes anyway! DD absolutely trusted SS because Snape had also made an Unbreakable Vow with him to obey him at all times. DD knew that he was dying and he desperately didn't want Draco to become a murderer so he pleaded wiyh Snape to kill him . There is NO way that DD would plead for his life. He knew he was dying and Snape's cover with the deatheaters had to be maintained. Hopefully this will all come out in the last book but I think that Harry will kill him anyway. He won't be able to forgive the death of his parents. Whether Harry will eventually triumph I just don't know. I really hope that it doesn't turn out that Snape was just plain evil. It would be so obvious and boring but i'm sure JKR has many more twistd for us.

Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 05:52:21 AM

Name:

 Mary

E-mail address:

 Warwick, RI

Comments:

 I'm not a fan of spoilers, but seeing as this forum is set up specifically for them, I thought I'd unload my two cents on the book (finished reading it at 3:03am and just can't sleep yet. I too figured out who the HBP was, I guess by a third of the way in, I just had a strong feeling (but I still wasn't sure until the end).

Yes, I'm heartbroken that Snape did the deed.. my daughter is of the opinion, based on Dumbledore's conversation with Draco before all hell broke loose on the roof, saying that they could fake his death, that perhaps Dumbledore really isn't dead. Like myself, Annie really doesn't want to believe that Snape deceived Dumbledore and the Order.. I know I have grown increasingly fond of Snape over the years, (not only because of AR..) and do truly want to believe that he was sincere in fighting Voldemort and the Deatheaters. Ah well, the anticipation for book 7 starts now..

Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 03:57:33 AM

Name:

 SeverinaSnape

Location:

 London

Homepage URL:

 http://livejournal.com/users/nativemoon

Comments:

 Sorry for the long post -

"So far my intuition has been proven correct. I figured who the Half Blood Prince was, and thought it might be the character who was killed. I did not suss who the killer was, but if you read carefully, you can see the plot twist that will be a possible out for that."

I havent read the book yet - it doesnt get delivered till tomorrow - but I am loving the spoilers I am following on several forums, including wikipedia which has excellent summaries of each chapter -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter_and_the_Half-Blood_Prince

Mehitabel - please elaborate on 'the plot twist that will be a possible out for that'

The discussion is only making me ache for my book -

But as I said elsewhere:

Harry has a lot to learn and the lessons are hard. The choice between what is right and what is easy - life isnt black and white. He still has a lot of growing up to do despite his considerable burdens. He will have to come to terms with the reality of Severus Snape the man - something his father and friends never did.

But again - the thing that for me also adds credence to the redemptive Snape theory is the facts surrounding Alan Rickman's casting in the role.
Rickman loathes being associated with villains and keeps turning down roles of that nature. JKR spoke with him as she did all of the major players in the films - giving them insights that they are sworn to secrecy about - both Rickman and Robbie Coltrane who portrays Hagrid have spoken about this. For Alan Rickman to have committed to playing Snape - there has to be something serious going on - and that something will come into play in Book 7 no doubt.

As I said in another thread: the fact that Alan Rickman agreed to portray Snape in the films has always suggested to me that Snape isnt going to be the cariacature bad-guy that he could be. Alan Rickman loathes being associated with villains and keeps turning down roles of that nature. The British Vogue Christmas 2004 photoshoot played on a theme of Pantomime - Alan Rickman agreed to do the shoot - but ONLY if he was not going to be cast as a villain. True to form.

Somehow there has to a redemptive process and has to be much more to Snape killing Dumbledore than meets the eye. I think Dumbledore had already instructed Snape to kill him when necessary, and that the tone of pleading in his voice was because he knew Snape was hesitating to do what was necessary at that moment. I wont have the book until Monday so obviously this particular observation is a shot in the dark for me.

Should JKR make him the literal bad-guy to the end of Book 7, I will be highly disappointed as he is already enough of a chariacture baddy with how he looks and acts in some respects...doing that would just be too predictable for me...

I have been wondering, though, if Ms R has upped the stakes in her plotlines and gone against things she originally planned - and if so is it because of the Fandom - and how many of us love to love Snape. After all - she has said that she doesnt understand why people like the bad guys in HP, like Snape and the Malfoys... I do that Ms R definately follows fanon - esp with the ships in this book that I have heard about.

She is playing hard and fast - and guaranteeing that the audience will be well and truly in place for Book 7.

Sunday, July 17th 2005 - 01:32:55 AM

Name:

 SARF

Location:

 NZ

Comments:

 Well, I'm pretty shocked. I didn't think that it was Dumbledore that was going to die. And Snape! Oh, Snape...


Anyway, I think agree with Martha's theory. I don't think that there's any way that Snape will live thru book 7. His life, from that point on, will be spent on the run. I also believe that DD wanted Snape to kill him. But I might revise this theory, as I need to read over the book a couple more times.


On a more positive note, I was quite pleased to see that love was a huge theme in this book. It was a nice change to the all pervasive anger that was in the 5th book. I don't know about anyone else, but I nearly squealed when I read about Tonks/Lupin and Harry/Ginny. I don't squeal so much about the Ron/Lavender thing - that relationship took me back to my schooldays...

Saturday, July 16th 2005 - 10:19:09 PM

Name:

 martha

Location:

 north of here

Comments:

 I’ll bet Snape doesn’t live through book 7. He’s murdered one of the most powerful and best loved wizards ever, and I don’t see how he could ever prove it was at DDs request. Even if it was, he still killed him. If the authorities don’t get him, if Harry doesn’t get him, he’ll spend the rest of his life running. He signed his own death warrant when he killed DD and they both knew it. That’s devotion, or keeping your word. And Harry called him a coward?

Course, Harry played a big part in killing DD, at DDs insistence. He just got Snape to finish the job. Nice guy, DD. Sacrificed Snape to save Draco. But I gather that was the deal. *sigh*

Then again, if Snape is a good guy, and Harry finally realizes it, it’ll be one more thing for poor Harry to feel guilty about. Nah. I don’t think Harry will give up hating Snape.

And what do you think of Snape’s remorse at getting the Potter’s killed?? Lily??

Saturday, July 16th 2005 - 09:48:06 PM

Name:

 martha

Location:

 north of here

Comments:

 I agree. I think DD knew all about Draco/Snape/Narcissa/V/Unbreakable, knew what was going down, knew he was dying and wanted Snape either because Snape was the only one who could help him (first), or(when Draco showed), the only one who would kill him and get Draco off the hook. He said when he was injured before, that Snape was the only one who could have helped him. And he always told V that death was not the worse that could happen to someone.

Harry has grown up, hasn’t he? Learned to keep his mouth shut, even if he can’t shut his mind. Funny, Snape was still trying to teach him that, even at the end...


Saturday, July 16th 2005 - 09:13:03 PM

Name:

 snapish

Comments:

 you know i get so wrattled i forget to say all that i want to say. dont you also find it strange that DD as he held his chest in pain with his bad hand said " go wake Severus, tell him what has happened and bring him to me, nothing else!" ... to me that is also strange, he could of said, go wake Severus and tell him whats happened, why did he say " bring him to me".........because he knew Snape would be the only person who would or could kill him.........gosh am i making any sense here with all my posts or am i babbling?

Saturday, July 16th 2005 - 08:54:25 PM

Name:

 snapish

Comments:

 Thank you guys, it so makes sense if you read between the lines, thats why Snape stopped the deatheaters from hurting Harry futher, thats why Snape never fired a curse back at Harry when he was being barbarded with them ( he is still protecting them[ either a bond with DD or Lily], and thats why he was upset at being called a coward because after killing DD and being now considered one of the most wanted wizards is far from being a coward,if only Harry could really see how brave Snape was for doing it. All the hints are before the battle too, i mean DD drinking that stuff in the cave, probably dying anyways. I dont think that Snape fooled DD for 16 years, i think DD and Snape have the wizarding (and us muggles) fooled.

Saturday, July 16th 2005 - 08:35:42 PM

Name:

 martha

Location:

 north of here

Comments:

 Have to agree that DDs plea to Snape was for Snape to kill him. He ordered Harry to go get him. He knew he was dying, he knew about SS and Draco. If SS killed him, it would get Draco off the hook with V. I think he was trying to save Draco’s life. I think the hatred and loathing in SS face was for what he knew he had to do, not for DD.

Snape told the other DEs to leave Harry be, that he was Vs. So why didn’t he grab Harry and take him along? He wouldn’t even let them torture Harry. He wouldn’t fight Harry himself, well, not until really provoked. Had not Buckbeak intervened, I don’t think he would have done Harry serious harm. Though he sure was pissed... But I guess, given all he’s done, being called coward would sting a bit. I will not believe, until the last word of the last book has been read and it is proved beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Snape was not on the side of the Light. Poor bastard, now he’s all alone.

DDs power will not end with his death, as he told V, there are worse things than dying. His being laid to rest on Hogwarts grounds will add the protection of his magic to the school.

But Harry not coming back to Hogwarts????

RAB – What do you all think? I vote for Regulus Black.

Saturday, July 16th 2005 - 08:33:19 PM

Name:

 Marlina

Location:

 Indonesia

E-mail address:

 alan55rickman@yahoo.co.uk

Homepage URL:

 http://www.xanga.com/alan_rickman_freak

Comments:

 You know what Snapish? i have the same theory as you... Just hope it's true..

Saturday, July 16th 2005 - 07:40:13 PM

Name:

 snapish

Comments:

 I personally think its a brilliant peice of writing,even though it was somwhat predictable since chapter two. But one thing for sure, Snape is one powerfull wizard, more powerfull than we know. Both DD and Snape are master occulmans and ligilimens ( mind readers), they didnt have to talk openly to each other as they did it privatly, thats why he pushed his way past Draco angrily because DD just told him to do it, he wasnt angry at Malfoy, he was truly angry at DD. But the problem is no one will ever know unless there was something left behind from DD but saying he told Snape to do it and it was a plot. I fear we wont have a redemption quality in Snape till book seven when he is forced to reveal his true side. We do have to remember that this series is a childrens series who wont anylise every little detail that we have discussed, they wont see that and think that Snape truly is the vilian and then will again be blown away in book seven......again, my opinion.

Saturday, July 16th 2005 - 06:49:14 PM

Name:

 Marlina

Location:

 Indonesia

E-mail address:

 alan55rickman@yahoo.co.uk

Homepage URL:

 http://www.xanga.com/alan_rickman_freak

Comments:

 I JUST READ IT!
ARGHHHH!!!!!
I can't believe what i read!!!!
i think i got a heart attack..

Saturday, July 16th 2005 - 06:30:24 PM

Name:

 Claudia

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 Ohhhhh its mud-blood! Not mug-blood. Thanks for the explanation, yall!

Tessa and Snapish make excellent but opposite points.

Anyone finish the entire book yet?

I noticed there is a long delay in some posts between when they are posted and when they appear. I apologize. I've had problems as well and Vicki has even reported that she posted twice yesterday and they still have never shown up. I'm afraid Dreambook is proving to us that the decision to move our regular guest bood to WebSiteToolBox was a good one afterall. I did go in the Dreambook admin panel and tweaked a couple of things so maybe posting will get a little easier. If not, I'll see if I can find another place for this book.

Saturday, July 16th 2005 - 05:27:40 PM

Name:

 Tessa

Location:

 Toronto

E-mail address:

 tj.adams@rogers.com

Comments:

 I did not like this book. I think making Snape the bad guy
was an easy target.I knew what would happen at the end of the book after reading chapter 2.It was predictable.
If Dumbeldore is the most powerful wizard in the world..how could Snape have fooled him for 16 years? To me,this was just weak and all the explanations in chapter 2 were weak and not believable. I am very disappointed and feel cheated.

Sorry JK, I don't think you hit the "Dark Mark" on this one.

Saturday, July 16th 2005 - 05:18:55 PM

Name:

 Snapish

Comments:

 i never got to finish my sentence. I accidently pressed the enter key, now what i was going to say is.I dont think that Narcissa is the only one Snape made a unbreakable vow with, i think he made one with DD too and thats why he had to kill him.

Saturday, July 16th 2005 - 12:57:31 PM

Name:

 snapish

Location:

 Canada

Comments:

 The reason Dumbledore was pleading with Snape just before his death was to get Severus to perform the Avada Kadarva, its all part of a plot, DD obviously knew he was going to die. I know it looks bad for Severus but i truly think he did it because DD asked Severus to do it.

Saturday, July 16th 2005 - 12:54:22 PM

Name:

 Ricky

Location:

 Austria

Comments:

 What I could read in other Foren, Claudia, snape has in this book a lot of lines.
Killing Dumbledore seems to have been the result of a vow, having given to Narcissa Malfoy (Lucius' wife). Her son Draco seems to have supposed to kill Dumbledore, but he was not able to - so now Snape "had to do it".

Well - when thinking of the coming film within a few years and AR still alive and wanting to go for this part, we will be able to see a lot of him in it. :o)
Ricky

Still a Fan of Snape - seems not to matter, what this scumbag is doing *sigh* (stupid me *g*)

Saturday, July 16th 2005 - 12:15:28 PM

Name:

 Claudia

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 Well, I'm quite shocked that its Dumbledore too but I'm really glad it wasn't Hagrid. And according to what I've read from other spoiler forums, Snape is the one that does the dirty deed, isn't it? Does this mean he is going to have a large role in movie 6 and ultimately book and movie 7?


Saturday, July 16th 2005 - 11:26:55 AM

Name:

 Ricky

Location:

 Austria

Comments:

 I just read it here http://www.foren.de/system/thread-spoilerwerstirbtinhp6-severussnape-52460-1518018.html
Andrea, who it was. I'm really disappointed - and a little bit shocked to. *sniff*

RIcky

Saturday, July 16th 2005 - 11:15:45 AM

Name:

 Andrea

Location:

 Germany

E-mail address:

 blueangels_1978@web.de

Comments:

 Well, I was not so surprised at to who dies, but very much more to the fact who causes that death!

Saturday, July 16th 2005 - 09:57:03 AM

Name:

 Ricky

Location:

 Austria

Comments:

 I have just read, who is dying (in a German Snape-Forum).

It is:

S
p
o
i
l
e
r


Director Dumbledore!

Ricky

Saturday, July 16th 2005 - 09:47:09 AM

Name:

 Mehitabel

Comments:

 Not to be contentious, but mudblood is an extremely disparaging word for a wizard or witch who is muggle, or of non-magical parents. It is considered as ugly as the 'n' word, and only used by the most narrow-minded people. It is why Hermione had every right to clock Draco in Prizoner of Azkaban. Normally I dislike kids popping one another, but he deserved it.

So far my intuition has been proven correct. I figured who the Half Blood Prince was, and thought it might be the character who was killed. I did not suss who the killer was, but if you read carefully, you can see the plot twist that will be a possible out for that.

Saturday, July 16th 2005 - 09:42:04 AM

Name:

 Sabine

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 Claudia - Mudblood is a really, really bad curse word for someone who is half muggle half wizard. I'm assuming half-blood is the proper word for them.

Barbara - your comment really worries me. I've only read the first two chapters so far and I am totally confused. I just don't want to believe it.

Saturday, July 16th 2005 - 09:20:11 AM

Name:

 Claudia

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 Oh dear, Barbara. Do you know who dies?

What's a Half-Blood Prince? I always assumed a half-blood and a mug-blood would be the same but maybe not.

I saw a bit of video out of Edinburgh's party with JKR. The kids were brought to the castle in horse drawn carriage--eyes twinkling with enchantment!

There was an interview with a woman whose last name it Grandpre--she's the woman that illustrates the books. Her favorite characters are Hagrid and of course Harry.

Saturday, July 16th 2005 - 07:29:58 AM

Name:

 Barbara

Location:

 New Zealand

Comments:

 oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. Prepare for the worst.

Saturday, July 16th 2005 - 06:10:50 AM

Name:

 Ricky

Location:

 Austria

Comments:

 Well, here it is 23.01, but I won't going for the book at 24.00. Maybe I try to get it tomorror while shops are open. We'll see. I haven't finished yet HP5 in English (read it in German one year ago or so) and it is not really urgent I suppose, because.....
I BELIEVE - my beloved Severus Snape, this ugly git ;o) will survive everything and everybody. And therefore it is no need for hastening for me.
(hope my English was clear :o))))
Ricky

Friday, July 15th 2005 - 05:01:38 PM

Name:

 TSO

Comments:

 S
P
o
i
l
e
r

.
.
.
.
I will say this. Snape is very prominent in this book.

Friday, July 15th 2005 - 10:41:51 AM

Name:

 Claudia

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 Hi, ANNICK! I "babel fished" ANNICK's post and this is the result:

The Prince of Blood-Mixed is neither Harry, nor Voldemort. The title of volume 6 was considered by J.K.Rowling for volume 2, the Room of the Secrecies, which "contains very important indices on the oddment". The first chapter of volume 6 was written starting from removed passages of the first book, the School of the Wizards. We will see a more explicit scene on Voldemort killing the parents of Harry. Harry and its friends will be in 6th year with Poudlard and will have all approximately 16 years. Harry will learn the result from its TUBE during the summer. Mark Evans is not an important character. The fact that this secondary character has the same name as Lily Evans, the mother of Harry, is a sheer coincidence.

It will be the summer with Privet Drive shortest of the life of Harry. The world of the wizards is "réelement again in war", and Moldus notice things more and more now that Voldemort is back. We will learn some much more in connection with the circumstances of the birth of Voldemort and in connection with Voldemort itself. Nymphadora Tonks and Mimi Geignarde will return. Narcissa Malfoy will now become more extensive than her Lucius husband is in prison. We will learn what Dudley Dursley saw when it was opposite Détraqueurs, in volume 5. Queudver, or Peter Pettigrow, who missed largely in volume 5, will reappear. Harry will know more lovesong (but will not arise with Cho) a new Minister of the Magic will officiate. The half-brother of Hagrid, Grawp, will be more controllable. There will be a cemetery in the park of Poudlard.

Aberforth Dumbledore, the brother of Dumbledore, is the barman of the Wild boar Head. The patronus of Dumbledore is a phoenix. We will learn why Voldemort did not die after having tried to kill Harry. We will also learn why Dumbledore it did not try to kill Voldemort at the end of volume 5. Aunt Pétunia is more important than one thinks it, but it is not Cracmol. There will be a new character called McClaggan. Chapters will be named "Spinners End", "Draco' S Detour" and "Felix Felicis".

And of course, elements common to all the volumes: Harry will have new professor de Défense against the Forces of the Evil, and it will learn its name a few times before the beginning from the quarter. One will hear a new song of magic Choixpeau at the time of the ceremony of distribution. With the end of the year, Harry will fight against Voldemort and its Mangemorts. Official extract "It rather had the air of an old lion. Its fawn-coloured mane and its bulky eyebrows were strewn with gray lines. It had yellow and penetrating eyes behind iron mounting of its glasses and a certain imposing presence, a gracious step, although it went while limping slightly "

I'm not so sure about the paragraphs of her post so I started new ones after each section I ran through the translator.

Friday, July 15th 2005 - 09:28:32 AM

Name:

 ANNICK

Location:

 FRANCE

Comments:

 Le Prince de Sang-Mêlé n’est ni Harry, ni Voldemort.
Le titre du tome 6 était envisagé par J.K.Rowling pour le tome 2, la Chambre des Secrets, qui "contient des indices très importants sur la fin de la série".
Le premier chapitre du tome 6 a été écrit à partir de passages supprimés du premier livre, l’Ecole des Sorciers. Nous verrons une scène plus explicite sur Voldemort tuant les parents de Harry.
Harry et ses amis seront en 6ème année à Poudlard et auront tous environ 16 ans.
Harry apprendra le résultat de ses BUSE durant l’été.
Mark Evans n’est pas un personnage important. Le fait que ce personnage secondaire ait le même nom que Lily Evans, la mère de Harry, est une pure coïncidence.
Ce sera l’été à Privet Drive le plus court de la vie d’Harry.
Le monde des sorciers est "réelement de nouveau en guerre", et les Moldus remarquent de plus en plus de choses maintenant que Voldemort est de retour.
Nous en apprendrons beaucoup plus à propos des circonstances de la naissance de Voldemort et à propos de Voldemort lui-même.
Nymphadora Tonks et Mimi Geignarde reviendront.
Narcissa Malfoy prendra plus d’ampleur maintenant que son mari Lucius est en prison.
Nous apprendrons ce que Dudley Dursley a vu lorsqu’il était en face des Détraqueurs, dans le tome 5.
Queudver, ou Peter Pettigrow, qui était largement absent dans le tome 5, réapparaîtra.
Harry connaîtra plus de romance (mais ne ressortira pas avec Cho)
Un nouveau Ministre de la Magie officiera.
Le demi-frère de Hagrid, Grawp, sera plus contrôlable.
Il y aura un cimetière dans le parc de Poudlard.
Aberforth Dumbledore, le frère de Dumbledore, est le barman de la Tête de Sanglier.
Le patronus de Dumbledore est un phénix.
Nous apprendrons pourquoi Voldemort n’est pas mort après avoir essayé de tuer Harry.
Nous apprendrons également pourquoi Dumbledore n’a-t-il pas essayé de tuer Voldemort à la fin du tome 5.
La Tante Pétunia est plus importante que l’on ne le pense, mais ce n’est pas une Cracmol.
Il y aura un nouveau personnage appelé McClaggan.
Des chapitres seront nommés "Spinners End", "Draco’s Detour" et "Felix Felicis".

Et bien sûr, les éléments communs à tous les tomes :

Harry aura un nouveau professeur de Défense contre les Forces du Mal, et il apprendra son nom quelques temps avant le début du trimestre.
On entendra une nouvelle chanson du Choixpeau magique lors de la cérémonie de répartition.
A la fin de l’année, Harry se battra contre Voldemort et ses Mangemorts.

Extrait officiel
« Il avait plutôt l’air d’un vieux lion. Sa crinière fauve et ses sourcils touffus étaient parsemés de raies grises. Il avait des yeux jaunes et pénétrants derrière la monture en fer de ses lunettes et une certaine prestance, une démarche gracieuse, bien qu’il marcha en boitant légèrement. »


Friday, July 15th 2005 - 09:08:28 AM

Name:

 Claudia

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 US boy buys new Harry Potter book

Thursday, July 14th 2005 - 03:46:15 PM

Name:

 TSO

Comments:

 Oh, if I wasn't suppose to post that you can delete it.

Wednesday, July 13th 2005 - 07:44:31 PM

Name:

 TSO

Comments:

 If you want to know now, or just like speculating.

These sites are laden with possible spoilers.

Just so you know.

Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince Spoiler Zone

Speed Reading Forum

Wednesday, July 13th 2005 - 07:31:53 PM

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