The Alan Rickman Download Haven
HP Spoilers Archive
Post 362 - 492
(December 2005 and January 2006)
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HP Spoilers Archive
Post 362 - 492
(December 2005 and January 2006)
[ Back to HP Spoilers Forum | Back to The Alan Rickman Download Haven | Back to ARDLH-GB
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Name: |
Jan |
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Location: |
NW PA USA |
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Comments: |
I don't think Snape left the Death Eaters before the Potters were killed because you don't leave the DEs and live - Karkaroff a case in point. After Voldemort disappeared on the death of the Potters Snape renounced the DEs and joined the Order. Otherwise, Voldie would never have taken him back. I'm not 100 percent certain of this - I don't remember reading it, but I'm 95 percent sure.
I agree that Snape's loyalties are with Snape. That Snape's fondest desire is recognition makes complete sense to me. However, I don't see Snape killing Voldemort. The problem I see there is that it eliminates the necessity of Harry Potter. And - these are essentially children's books so the children must be the 'stars' of the show. The adults in the book are mainly support characters. That's not the way we adults tend to think about it, but I think it must be true. I think (no evidence - just my thought) that, for whatever reason, Snape wants Voldemort dead. But I think he might know that he can't win against him. Snape is good but Voldie is better. Also, remember that Harry's advantage over Voldie is that he can and does love. Can Snape? I don't know. He has probably rejected love (maybe his mothers?) since JKR says that because he was loved at one time makes him worse than Voldie, who wasn't. It seems to me that the only way that could make him worse is because he turned away from love. If Snape knows that Harry has an advantage over Voldie that he doesn't - and he would almost certainly have been privy to that, I think, then he knows he must in some way support Harry until he can get the best of Voldie. This is where I think a possibility of redemption comes in for him, even if he does it for personal reasons only. But, then, who knows? Did anyone else notice that in the GoF movie, Snape came up behind Dumbledore when he was bending over Harry and Cedric and put his hand on DD's back, as if in support. And his face showed concern over the situation. Now, everything I've seen about AR - interviews with him about his contributions to the characters he's played: Hans wearing a suit, Alexander Dane's not being a knight, fighting for things about DeValera, directing the boy-Mesmer in the Making of Mesmer video, and on and on - NOTHING HE DOES as a character IS BY ACCIDENT or likely to be something HE doesn't see as proper for the character. It's one of the things that I admire about him. He CARES about what he does. So, that said - what is it that Snape cares about? Cedric's death? Harry's agony? A red herring? OH, NO! A horrible thought just occured! What if he's in on JKR's plot to drive us insane???!!! Our hero! It's way too late - I'm going to bed. Night, all! |
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Tuesday, January 31st 2006 - 10:14:25 PM |
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Name: |
Vicki |
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Location: |
Los Angeles |
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Comments: |
I agree, Jan that doesn't make much sense! Snape is no fool and should have known enough about how Voldie and the DE's operate to know that deaths would follow once Voldie learned of the prophecy. I'm sure he was also fully aware that the Potters were part of the Order and anyone in the Order is a prime target for the DE's. No, just the fact that revealing what he knew of the prophecy resulting in the Potter's death and he felt "bad" about it is not enough proof to me that Snape had made a change....and I doubt that DD would have bought the story on that flimsy of a platform either. There HAD to be something else....SOMETHING that proved to DD that Snape was to be trusted. But what, I cannot tell you.
Now maybe I'm wrong, but didn't Snape leave the DE's BEFORE the Potter's were killed? Somewhere I'm sure I've read that. I hope I'm not going crazy. I'll see if I can find that later. I believe that Snape's loyalties lie neither with the Death Eater's nor the Order. His true loyalty is to himself. A true Slytherin to the end. But if you were to ask me who he respected more: Dumbledore or Voldemort, then I would tell you, hands down, Dumbledore. Both are powerful wizards but DD posesses qualities that I believe Snape admires but has difficulty in achieving. Snape is a very accomplished wizard and respects intelligence and power. But DD had more to give Snape then Voldie ever could or would. Under Voldie, Snape might be part of the DE's inner circle but always under Voldie's thumb and the threat of him throwing an AK curse at you if you displeased him or were of no further use would always hang over your head. Dumbledore, on the other hand, saw the inner potential in Snape, this outcast of a boy. Although he kept him in check in many ways (not giving him the DADA job, for instance) he also trusted him with many things and I believe that Snape saw that this was the better life for him. BUT....and this is the twist in my personal theory....I don't believe he is loyal enough to the Order/DD to follow through on everything that DD had planned. Yes, I believe that Snape killing DD was preplanned. It was necessary to maintain Snape's cover and give him undeniable credibility. It also saved Draco from becoming a killer (which, it appears, Draco would have never followed through on as he was beginning to lower his wand when Snape arrived at the tower)and allowed him to keep his UV to Narcissa. But now that DD is no longer around calling the shots, I think Severus is going to take things into his own hands. A while back...just before the film GoF was released, I wrote a post about "what would Snape see if he looked into the mirror of Erisid". I think the one thing that Snape desires above all else is recognition. All his life, no matter what he did or how good he was at potions, spells, curses, DADA, occlumency....whatever...he never received the recognition that he felt he deserved. He was always being overshadowed by "show-offs" and braggarts like James Potter and Sirius Black. Wizards who stole the limelight because they were richer, or better looking, or Quidditch stars, or popular, or just plain loud-mouthed, attention seeking bullies. Nevermind that he was a dark, surly, sarcastic, greasy misfit. In his mind, he felt he deserved more. Even his prowess at potions could not get him into the SlugClub. He just didn't fit in...and had no redeeming qualties or connections that Slughorn could exploit. No wonder he rebuffed Lily in the pensieve memory. He was probably just as good at potions but received no recognition for it. So where does he turn? Like a lot of outcasts, he turns inward inventing nasty little curses and hexes...torments to fling at his tormentors. Until he is finally accepted into a gang of thugs--the Death Eaters....probably because he finally gained a reputation for his nastiness that they figured they could use. Finally a little recognition, but for all the wrong reasons. My theory is that Snape could really care less about the people in the Order. He had great respect for DD and realizes that the best thing for the wizarding world would be to rid themselves of Voldemort. But I see him attempting to do this for his own glory not for any higher cause then that. I think he will use Harry to do this (how I don't know) and if members of the Order are killed in the process...so be it. As long as in the end, he receives the recognition that he is the major force responsible for defeating Voldie, that's all he cares. So, yes, he is following through on DD's plan, but the means to that end will be much different. His motivation is to be recognized as the wizard who defeated the Dark Lord..not as the loyal member of the Order of the Phoenix. My lingering question after finishing book six is this: Somebody in the Order must know that Snape is acting on DD's plan. It would be stupid of them to contrive this and not let at least one surviving member in on it. But who?? Minerva? Flitwick? Aberforth (his goat-loving, barkeeping brother)? Who knows the truth?? |
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Tuesday, January 31st 2006 - 09:14:46 PM |
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Name: |
Nahima |
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Comments: |
That's right Jan. Jo is very clever in making her plot "unplottable". No matter which idea you believe to be true (badSnape, goodSnape, whateverSnape) you'll find more than enough "evidence" to support it.
Now that I re think it, that quote "My orders were to remain behind" is not conclusive at all. Like many others "hints", it could be explained in different ways, depending just on what POV we have toward Snape. Take the whole conversation as an example, Snape cleared to Bellatrix point by point many of the things that suggested him to be on the good side. This could happen again in the last book, reversing the plot one more time and for good. Consider me somewhat of a kindred spirit in your ideas about Dumbledore's assumed "big mistake". Nah, I don't buy it. If at the end of the books Snape turns out to be evil, it is my belief that it won't do any good to the series as a whole. This is what I referred about prejudices in my prior message. When Jo made Quirrell to be the bad guy, in Philosopher's Stone, she shot down a well-known misconception. It is a mistake to judge a book by its cover, the common sense tell us that appeareances can be misleading. This is a good lesson for real life and it has been repeated many times during the story. It would be odd to prove otherwise at the very end. Besides, worst than the "guy who appears to be bad must be bad" final idea would be the "old man who appears to be wise could be just a fool". The experience and knowledge that come with the years is a valuable asset not a nuisance. Dumbledore's decisions to love, to trust, to seek the good in people, those are not signs of weakness at all (or foolishness). On the contrary, he was a great wizard because of those qualities more than because of his magic powers. These are the reasons why I cannot believe Snape to be evil, I trust Dumbledore completely and Jo's good judgement to do what is right rather than what is easy. (Ha ha! I forgot the exact quote: "Difficult times lied ahead, etc. etc.") |
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Tuesday, January 31st 2006 - 08:30:28 PM |
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Name: |
Jan |
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Comments: |
Elisa: 'a wardrobe full of his fans!!'
I LOVE IT!! And you may be right! Regarding Snape as a possible spider animagus: even if he is, we need to be careful in thinking that every time a spider appears, it might be him. I'm not sure if DD & Harry and Snape at Spinner's End happened at the same time, but I personally don't think any of the MANY spiders on DD'S hat were likely to be Snape. But I wouldn't doubt they mean something. Maybe some kind of symbol? I can't remember - did Snape know specifically that Harry believed Sirius to be kidnapped until he was in Umbridge's office with him? Because then he couldn't warn Harry without tipping off Umbridge. He couldn't even let Harry know that he understood his message. It does make sense to me that Voldemort wouldn't necessarily share every detail of his plans with anyone - good warlords never do. As far as clues - JKR wouldn't be caught giving us too many clues. She's much too crafty for that! She'll keep us guessing until the very end. Thank goodness! NOW . . . I'm completely with you, Nahima, I HATE the idea that DD has been fooled by Snape all these years. It's all well and good to say that someone who is very intelligent also makes big mistakes, as DD told Harry, but if he was completely taken in by Snape - that's gullibility bordering on stupidity to me. I could buy that he wants to see the best in people and so could be a little too trusting sometimes, but at his level of knowledge, he must also be very much aware of the darker nature of people. After all, he was the first to see in what direction Voldemort was going as a young man. We have still not been told the complete reason he trusted Snape. As I've said before - he told Harry that Snape 'did not know -- had no possible way of knowing -- which boy Voldemort would hunt from then onward, or that the parents he would destroy in his murderous quest were people that Professor Snape knew, that they were your mother and father--' As a complete explanation of DD's trust in Snape THAT - DOESN'T - MAKE - SENSE! Why would an avowed Death Eater think, in affect, 'Oooh, Lord Voldemort - please don't hurt anyone I know (even if I do hate one them with every fiber of my being for their humiliation of me as a child)! Make sure it's someone I don't know.' HUH??? Some Death Eater! Whew! Glad I got that off my chest. . . for now. Repetitive - sooorrryyy. |
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Tuesday, January 31st 2006 - 06:12:19 PM |
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Name: |
Nahima |
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Comments: |
Hi everyone!
This is my first post here, don't know if this has been discussed already but I want to share something I read in other place. "My orders were to remain behind." Snape's words to Bellatrix in the Spinner's End chapter (HBP) He was referring to the death eaters incursion in the MoM, to get the prophecy. Snape's answer to Bellatrix means that he was aware of Voldemort's plan. Being in the Order of the Phoenix, he was aware also that it cannot be that easy to kidnap Sirius. Why did he do nothing to stop Harry? I have read many times the explanations Snape gave to Bellatrix in hope to find something, a clear contradiction or hint, that put Snape on DD's side for sure. I don't like the idea of Dumbledore being fooled by Snape all those years. If it turns in the end that way, I will be really disappointed because it would prove right some prejudices that are clearly wrong in real life. But this is another topic, I want to put to your attention the quote from HBP. I think of it and my only guess is that maybe Snape knew about the plans in general, not in detail. Voldemort could have said to Snape about the need of getting the prophecy but did not share with him the detailed plan of trick Harry into believe Sirius' kidnapping etc. etc. What do you think? |
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Tuesday, January 31st 2006 - 01:43:47 PM |
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Name: |
Rebecca (Snapeluster) |
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Comments: |
Back in October in another group I brought up the idea of Snape's animagus being a spider...and the spiders on DD's hat being Snape in disguise. Then it was shot down, because someone else theorized that all the events in Chapters 1-3 of HBP are all happening simultaneously, so Snape couldn't be in the shed with DD and Harry, if he was also at Spinner's End with Bellatrix and Narcissa.
I didn't quite agree totally, but not sure how much evidence there was to support it either way. ~Rebecca |
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Tuesday, January 31st 2006 - 12:33:01 PM |
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Name: |
Elisa |
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Comments: |
Reedpipe: Made a lot of sense to me at the time, and makes even more sense now, especially since we've found out that Snape's home is called . . . Spinner's End.
Elisa: I’ve never thought of it, you’re right. There are spiders also in the first book, when Harry receives the letter, from the ceiling. Why Snape should have been there? Jan: One thing that just fascinates me is that JKR said in an interview that telling what shape Snape's boggart would take and what his patronus is would be giving too much away. I can't wait to find those things out! What is he most afraid of? Elisa: I’m so curious about it…maybe Snape’s boggart could be a wardrobe full of his fans!! Dressed as witches… Be serious, I don’t know. Maybe, the patronus and the boggart could be related with his parents. Jan: The only thing I can't figure out is how Snape being an animagus/spider might work into the plot and be useful??? Elisa: Mhmm…to muddles us again and more!!! Jan: Food for thought! Elisa: The only thing that doesn’t make me put on weight!!! |
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Tuesday, January 31st 2006 - 03:26:20 AM |
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Name: |
Jan |
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Comments: |
That's a very interesting theory! A spider would certainly have fit JKR's description of Snape. And, unlike the movie version where he was there when Harry came back with the Goblet, Snape doesn't appear in the book until they break into Moody's office.
Spinner's End is a street which leads to a mill which may or may not have been used to make - say thread or something, JKR doesn't specify it's use. That would be a good clue, though, if the above is true. One thing that just fascinates me is that JKR said in an interview that telling what shape Snape's boggart would take and what his patronus is would be giving too much away. I can't wait to find those things out! What is he most afraid of? The only thing I can't figure out is how Snape being an animagus/spider might work into the plot and be useful??? Food for thought! |
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Monday, January 30th 2006 - 09:29:54 PM |
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Name: |
Reedpipe |
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Location: |
CT |
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Comments: |
Spiders, spiders . . . I remember reading a very fine Mugglenet editorial a loooong time ago, like a year before HBP came out, that posited that Snape was an Animagus and that his animal form was a spider. The author pointed out that Snape's grip on Harry after the pensieve incident in OotP was "pincer-like" and that JKR described young Snape as gangly and twitchy, like a spider. The author also theorized that Snape was the spider in the Fourth Task maze in GoF, because he was nowhere else to be seen. Made a lot of sense to me at the time, and makes even more sense now, especially since we've found out that Snape's home is called . . . Spinner's End. |
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Monday, January 30th 2006 - 03:56:13 PM |
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Name: |
Rebecca (Snapeluster) |
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Location: |
between housework |
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Comments: |
http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/MTarchives/008301.php
Trying to catch up on posts, but this just in on TLC...Black family history and Harry's grandparents! Coooool.... Elisa-Yes, I too noticed the ton of spinder references...especially the ones in the shed in HBP, that fall out of DD's hat, or something to that effect. They have to mean something! Or maybe they are just there for "flavor". I dunno. |
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Saturday, January 28th 2006 - 09:44:00 AM |
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Name: |
Elisa |
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Comments: |
I don't know if you've already talked of it, but in every book, there are always spiders. Little spiders from the ceiling, little spiders on DD's hat, to arrive to Aragog.
And in JKR's site there're many, too. Is it by case? |
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Saturday, January 28th 2006 - 09:08:12 AM |
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Name: |
Jan |
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Comments: |
Oooooo - Kathy - that idea of 'that awful boy' referring to Snape and not James is intriguing! I never thought of that. Although it could still be James since Petunia would probably think of any wizard as awful, it still seems particularly apt for Snape, considering JKR's description of him.
Lily's feelings for Snape may not have been love, per se, but just compassion and friendship. Just supporting him and trying to help him be a better person. So his mother could still be the one who loved him. Of course, JKR says he was loved not that he was only loved by one person, I think. Often, in reality, when a compassionate person offers friendship to someone who is considered the 'oddball' of a group, that person, accustomed to being rejected, takes it as something more than it is and when they're rejected they lash out at the person who was only offering friendship. I've seen it myself. Maybe that's what happened between Lily and Snape, since JKR does address real life issues for her young readers. |
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Saturday, January 28th 2006 - 07:29:35 AM |
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Name: |
Chris |
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Comments: |
Kathy that is a very interesting theory. Also, Jan, yes that would be something (gathering rage from your past)! I`m still not sure about the AK thing, it WAS after all a green light, maybe it`s too much to speculate that spells can be changed or that you can say one thing and mean another. Do we have any incident like that prior that scene? I can`t remember. But yes, it COULD BE a possibility.
Hey guys, check this out! First I thought it to be irrelevant but after I read it it DID make a lot of sense! http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-dawn01.shtml It`s about the murder of Emmeline Vance which Snape takes credit for. |
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Saturday, January 28th 2006 - 04:09:40 AM |
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Name: |
Kathy |
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Comments: |
Chris, thanks for the link to the Spinners End editorials--they are great to read.
I agree,-- what will we talk about when book 7 comes out? One thing that struck me while reading was that Petunia over heard "that awful boy talking to her" about Azkaban and Dementors. When asked in a recent interview JKR said Petunia overheard a conversation with Lily and someone else. At first one assumes that it is James, but what if the "awful" boy was Snape??? What if Snape and Lily collaberated in Potions class? What if some of the writing or corrections in the Potions book were actually Lily's? Slughorn even said Lily was better than Snape. What if Lily was beginning to love Snape and felt betrayed when he called her a mudblood? I still think tho the person who loved Snape was his mother. Where are Lily and James's wands?? The editorials suggested that Hagrid would have a bigger role as a wizard in book 7 I tend to agree with that line of thinking. I have been thinking that Macgonagal (sp) will at sometime come to Harry with information from Dumbledore--either memories or a letter or something that will help him choose a direction to go in or to shed more light on things. I am still thinking that DD was dead before book 6 started and that was the reason for all the urgency in DD actions with Harry. I think Snape kept him alive until he could complete his mission. I don't think Snape killed him so I don't think the AC curse could hurt Snapes soul. |
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Saturday, January 28th 2006 - 02:43:20 AM |
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Name: |
Jan |
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Comments: |
Yes, I think that Snape's revulsion is for the act he is about to commit and not for Dumbledore. As far as the 'have to mean it' part of the curse, I wonder if one could use other, past hatred/anger to summon that? For instance, Snape could use is anger and/or hatred for his father for beating his mother.
Then there's that theory in a previous post (can't remember whose right now - sorry) that maybe Dumbledore was already essentially dead - that Snape had 'put a stopper in death' for him earlier. In that case, the Avada Kedavra was not really the cause of death - Snape was just 'unstopping' death. He could even have said aloud 'Avada Kedavra' for others to hear but actually have been giving a silent curse/charm/whatever to 'unstopper'. That's why Dumbledore insisted on Snape. He would want to protect even Malfoy. Eh??? Whotcha think??? What will we talk about when it's over? Well, for awhile we'll no doubt be comparing our theories with the book, and OMG-ing, and then Alan's bound to be doing something else that's interesting! His films are often thought-provoking, if not so mysterious. But I have to confess - I am like Dumbledore - I do want to see the best in everyone! Even our dear Alan-Snape. Book Snape, not so fond of! But in life I've never known anyone who didn't have at least a little bit of good in them. |
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Friday, January 27th 2006 - 10:27:53 PM |
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Name: |
Chris |
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Comments: |
A new collumn has opened on the mugglenet editorials section. I think you`re going to dig this one, it`s called ...guess what! Spinner`s End!
Check it out at http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/spinnersend/index.shtml Some very interesting editorials. The look on Snape`s face is one major evidence for "the defense". Could he had loathed DD to THAT extent? Of course not, not ONE hint is present through all the books about that. Sure he may be unhappy with one or two of his dcisions but that much hatred? No. I don`t think so. So why was there revulsion on his features that dreadful night? Because that was the expression of the hatred he had for HIMSELF and for his action, for the fact he HAD to murder the one person who really trusted him. (Although I`m still bothered by the fact JKR says you HAVE to REALLY mean the curse. Does simple hatred do, can you fake it, can you ACT or do you really have to desire one`s death in order to succede?) I think that was the thing that drove him mad that night, not Harry. We`re also told there was "pain" (or something similar) on his face when he shouts at Harry in the grounds. (I liked the way that`s presented in corelation to Fang`s long howling from the burning house. Could that be a comparison with his own soul trapped into a cage without exit?) Why pain? Because he did have a conscience which was torn appart. At least that`s the way I like to see it anyway... |
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Friday, January 27th 2006 - 05:18:43 PM |
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Name: |
Elisa |
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Comments: |
Jan, the attach works, really very good, thanks. I'll write you as soon as possible.
My fear is that Snape could die at the end of HP7, even if, wouldn’t become “too hero” both killing Voldemort or “saving” Harry? What will we do when the book ends??? What will we talk about?? |
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Friday, January 27th 2006 - 02:48:06 AM |
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Name: |
Jan |
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Comments: |
Don't you wish the books had an index so you could find specific references easily??? I do.
Alfan - I agree with you about DD not being afraid of death. It always seemed wrong that he was described as begging - just doesn't make sense at all. I think the pleading tone was just Harry's interpretation of what he saw. I've also wondered about the hatred in Snape's face. Of course, he might have to work up hatred in order for the Avada Kedavra curse to work - 'you have to MEAN it' but I just couldn't help but wonder if that was also a bit of preconception on Harry's part. I don't remember DD saying that Harry's & Voldemort's wands would never work against each other - I took it that it happened in GoF because they sent their curses at the same time. Maybe not. However, couldn't Harry kill Voldemort if, say, Snape distracted V long enough so they weren't using them on each other at the same time? My thinking has been that Harry has to kill Voldemort and that, probably Snape knows that so he means to help Harry do that in order to 'get even' with Voldemort. For what? Killing Lily, maybe? DD saying that Snape regretted telling V the prophecy because he didn't know it would be someone he knew. Why would he care that it was someone he knew? I agree that Snape and DD had an agreement about Snape killing him, if necessary. Drive oneself to drink, indeed!!! |
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Thursday, January 26th 2006 - 11:18:27 PM |
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Name: |
Alfan |
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Location: |
Canada |
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Comments: |
I just have a few ramblings and im sorry but i dont have the books but i remember the quote.
What the heck was Hemione going to say when she was interupted by Harry at the end of HBP when she says " Eileen Prince and Tobias Snape gave birth to a .......? and Harry interupts her and says " a murderer" and she says back " well...yes. Is that all or was she going to say more? I think there was more there than meets the eye. And you know what makes me believe that there is some kind of unspoken bond or word between Snape and Dumbledore. Well,its not Snape--its Dumbledore. To me, Dumbldore WAS NOT AFRAID OF DEATH. He said it in book five " there are worse things than death Tom" and " death is just the next great adventure". Why would a man who is not afraid of death BEG for his life, specially to a man who has just betrayed him. One minute he is saying to Draco, " Draco, you are not a killer" and the the next minute he says " please Severus, please". He would not give a deatheater the satisfaction of begging, would he. And DD saying " you are not a killer" to Draco makes more sense as to why Dumbldore askes Harry to " go and wake Severus, tell him whats happened and him to me" Pretty specific instructions, dont you think. Thats because he knew that Snape was the only one who could or would do what he had to do and not let emotion overcome him. I stick to my guns and say that DD had somewhere instructed Severus to do the unforgivable if it came between himself, Draco or Severus.Dumbledore was not of much help in his worsening state and i think he knew that he would be more useful to will be more useful to the order dead, and combine that with Severus being more useful to the order in Voldemorts camp. I also think it will be Snape that kills Voldeomrt in the end once Voldemort is mortal again, i dont know if destoying the Horcux's will change the priori incantatem as that has to do with wands???????( maybe Voldemorts wand is a horcrux, thats why he was so adamant on having it back). Dumbledore explains '"The wands will not work properly against each other, one of the wands will force the other to regurgitate spells it has performed".So unless Harry or Voldemort have other wands at the time of the duel then Harry cannot kill Voldemort and Voldemort cant kill Harry. This is where Snape will redeem himself, before or after he is exposed as a spy i do not know. Gosh, a person could really drive themselves to drink if they get to caught up in the theory bit, eh. |
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Thursday, January 26th 2006 - 07:19:47 PM |
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Name: |
Jan |
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Comments: |
Elisa - I've sent the pic as an attachment in an email. Let me know if it doesn't work at your end.
Chris - I agree that it is more interesting to have a character have to kill a partner than an enemy. And JKR's story is nothing if not interesting (and complicated)! Reedpipe - Your theory makes as much sense as any at this point. The whole UV thing brings up far more questions than it answers - it seems there's no doubt about that. And it's possible, I suppose, that Voldie threatened Draco with death to give him extra motivation and to test him but would know that, as a mere teenager, failure would not necessarily mean that he was hopeless and might give him another chance.??? Only because he thought he could still use him - not from any kind of sympathy. Only JKR knows for sure (and maybe AR &/or RF)!! |
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Thursday, January 26th 2006 - 04:21:29 PM |
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Name: |
Reedpipe |
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Location: |
CT |
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Comments: |
Perhaps Narcissa had another reason for wanting to ensure DD was killed. We know that Voldie has already gone into a terrible rage after his wishes weren't carried out, at least once. To quote JKR (although she was referring to Sirius here), he was positively "unhinged." Maybe Narcissa thought that if DD was at least killed, Voldie would see that his aim would have at least been achieved, and the chances of him killing Draco out of sheer irrational anger would be lowered. Does that make any sense? |
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Thursday, January 26th 2006 - 08:50:15 AM |
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Name: |
Chris |
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Comments: |
Wow, this place is really alert! :)
Jan - I know, I agree but Narcissa did mention he should "do it" in case Draco fails, not only to support him in his mission. I was placing most of my hopes into his hesitation on making the UV but come to think about maybe he was just annoyed by the fact his position might be compromised or his own life endangered. Killing DD (IF he actually KNEW the plan and wasn`t just bluffing) is not an easy task and he had to do that in exchange for his own life so we`re talking about a lot of pressure. Oh but wait! I`m not his prosecutor, I don`t want to bring anybody down, I`m just taking into consideration every possibility. The whole plan that involved Draco seems a bit tricky to me and bringing Snape into this only adds up to the situation. But if you look at the whole story it bassicly comes down to this "a double-double-double-triple-whatever spy" that no one can figure out that is forced to compromise his situation by killing the one person who trusted him completely (we exclude Voldmort because you can`t really think he TRUSTS anyone. For him that would only be an act of foolishness). And in this case I think it would make things much more interesting if he really was forced to murder a "partner" instead of an enemy, don`t you think? I`m so anxious to se JKR`s take on all of this, I`m sure there is something we`re missing, even after all these speculations. |
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Thursday, January 26th 2006 - 08:21:42 AM |
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Name: |
Elisa |
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Comments: |
I agree that the whole plan is odd, why Narcissa doesn’t ask him just to protect her son? To watch over him? Perhaps, arriving to the final decision to kill DD….
My mind is scared of thinking a mother can approve what Draco’s going to do. Ok, they’re Lucius’s relatives and at the moment isn’t a good position, but the fact that Snape kill DD (in front of all others), won’t help Draco at all. Why doesn’t Snape help him to poison DD? I think Snape would wait DD found out the cavern with Potter… and odd theory, might it be an Horcrux something of “immaterial” (like the liquid DD drinks)? |
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Thursday, January 26th 2006 - 02:01:01 AM |
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Name: |
Jan |
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Comments: |
I should have said Snape's U.V. was to protect Malfoy from failure, which would bring Voldie's wrath down on Malfoy. If Snape's killing DD in case Malfoy couldn't would protect Malfoy from Voldie (seems unlikely), then if someone else killed DD what would be the difference? I never thought that whole Snape/Narcissa plan made sense, actually. Maybe I'm missing something, though. |
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Wednesday, January 25th 2006 - 08:59:29 PM |
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Name: |
Jan |
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Comments: |
No, Snape didn't keep someone from killing DD - I was wrong about that - it was a 'brutal-faced' man before Snape got there. I should have looked that up first.
Anyway, Chris - Snape's Unbreakable Vow wasn't to kill DD, just to protect Malfoy. If someone else had killed DD, Malfoy would still have been protected and so the U.V. not broken. Rebecca - I thought that 'people find it far easier to forgive' line significant, too. If we disagree on something and you turn out to be wrong it's easy for me to forgive you because I'm right - my ego is intact. However, if YOU'RE right, that means I'M wrong so my ego is wounded and it's harder to forgive you. But I don't know where it might be applicable in the rest of the story. Many places, maybe. That'll be something else to mull over. I don't believe that Snape will turn out to be a wonderful person - there's just no way. However, when JKR said: 'Double-double-quadruple-to-the-power-of - yeah.' about Snape being spying for whoever - in a spy story you never know for sure which side they're on until the last minute - that's where the mystery and tension comes from. So we still don't know that and won't FOR SURE until Book 7. |
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Wednesday, January 25th 2006 - 06:58:32 PM |
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Name: |
Rebecca (Snapeluster) |
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Location: |
digging for clues |
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Comments: |
WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS??
I just randomly flipped open my HBP book, and on page 96, Hermione says, "Dumbledore says people find it far easier to forgive others for being wrong than being right." She says it in reference to Percy still not talking to his Mom and Dad, even though it's pointed out that his Dad was right all along about Voldy being back. Is this possibly a foreshadowing of (sorryhatetosaythis)Dumbledore possibly knowing he's taking a chance trusting Snape,( or even knowing he's wrong) and to his thinking, if he's wrong, knows Harry won't be that hard on him about it??? Or is she just referring to the Percy situation,and nothing more? It seems too big of a quote, though, to be totally in there for no other reason. |
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Wednesday, January 25th 2006 - 06:27:26 PM |
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Name: |
Rebecca(Snapeluster) |
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Location: |
hmmmm... |
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Comments: |
Chris-"The fact that he prevented the others from killing DD (did he?) might be explained also by the (less appealing of course) fact that he DID agree to that Unbreakable vow AND he HAD to do it himself in order to save his own neck.Without any agreement or secret pact from DD. *sigh*"
Well, crap. I never saw it boiled down to just what you wrote here. It does, however, fit. Nicely. *shifts thinking to "I'll still take Snape any way he wants to be.* ..."I don`t think he would actually go that far in missleading the fandom UNLESS Snape is really a bastard and the whole point is for everyone to go insane when they see that.:)"... Ha! Yep, that would do it for me, but see above thought.:) Jan-"I was cripplingly shy and JKR's Snape would see that as weakness and POUNCE!" Yup--me too. He would have made me wet myself in front of the whole class, I'm sure. Luckily no real Snapey teachers for me when I was like that. |
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Wednesday, January 25th 2006 - 06:16:56 PM |
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Name: |
Chris |
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Comments: |
Well, yes, Jan, I personally believe that AR had a thing or two to say about the way he`ll portray Snape. It`s a bit puzzling since we already know how nasty he IS in the books, I really cannot digg up AR`s take on him. Maybe it`s because he really is a bit tired of playing villains, maybe he wants us to see his weaknesses and "soft spots" (right on!). I don`t think he would actually go that far in missleading the fandom UNLESS Snape is really a bastard and the whole point is for everyone to go insane when they see that.:) That`s the only explanation for me. Oh and yes, I too noticed that he didn`t harm any of the students (and it would have been only to easy to simply kill Flitwick!) and even Harry. That momment, in the Hogwarts grounds and that "don`t call me coward" thingy are two major hints, at least for me. But I am FAR from thinking "he`s good after all". No one`s sorted into Slytherin for no reason. I just won`t accept the fact that he`s just like the others DEs. Until proven guilty :)
The fact that he prevented the others from killing DD (did he?) might be explained also by the (less appealing of course) fact that he DID agree to that Unbreakable vow AND he HAD to do it himself in order to save his own neck.Without any agreement or secret pact from DD. *sigh* Hmm, maybe we too, like DD (or Lily), just want to see the good in people after all. |
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Wednesday, January 25th 2006 - 04:49:32 PM |
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Name: |
Jan (again!) |
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Location: |
Locked inside by a snowstorm |
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Comments: |
Here's some pro-Snape thoughts to mull over, guys:
In Half-Blood Prince, after the big battle, Harry asked for a blow-by-blow account of what happened in the fight. All of the 'good guys' gave their account of the events. Not one saw Snape do ANYTHING against the Order. Not only that, but Snape stopped the others from 'killing' Dumbledore and kept urging them to just leave as fast as possible after he did(?). What's more, when Harry was chasing him and trying to do damage to him, Snape never did that much against Harry. One thing that really stood out to me was that one of the bad guys was using the Crutius Curse on Harry and Snape stopped them. The reason he gave was that Voldemort wanted Harry himself - but the Crutius Curse is not a killing curse. Excessive use of it can drive one to madness, as it did Neville's parents, but if they used it on Harry he would simple suffer for awhile and would live for Voldemort to have his day with Harry. But Snape stopped it immediately. Why? You would think, hating Harry as he does (and by all accounts, he DOES), he would be happy to see Harry suffer a bit - but no! SNAPEY, DEAR - DO YOU HAVE A SOFT SPOT??? Interesting??? Just for the record - I'm quite fond of AR as Snape but I can't stand JKR's Snape. If I had him as a teacher as a child, I would have died! I was cripplingly shy and JKR's Snape would see that as weakness and POUNCE! There's not much worse (short of physical abuse) one could do to a teenager than humiliate them in front of their class as Snape did in JKR's GoF. That was just plain nasty! So are they going easy on Snape, leaving the worst parts of him out of the movies so far only so they can really sock it to us in the last few movies? Or are they going easy on him because he won't be THAT BAD in the end? |
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Wednesday, January 25th 2006 - 09:17:55 AM |
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Name: |
Jan |
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Comments: |
Elisa, I agree with you on why Bella would have taught Draco to protect his thoughts from Voldemort since she is loyal to Voldie, but she could have taught him just because it's a good skill to have, of course. More likely, though, to hide his thoughts from DD and Snape since she knew he was plotting against DD and she didn't trust Snape and both DD & Snape are exceptionally good at Legilimancy - 'reading minds.'
Also, I think you're right about Draco not having anything to conceal from Voldie. Also, why would Snape ask if Draco was trying to hide something from Voldemort? He's not - he's trying to hide it from Snape at that moment. Voldie isn't even there. If you walked into a room and saw someone hide something quickly you wouldn't wonder why they were trying to hide it from someone who wasn't even there - you'd wonder why they were trying to hide it from you. I think Draco's comment 'I'm not trying to hide anything from HIM' is made only to let Snape know Draco's outgrown him and no longer considers him his master,I think. |
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Wednesday, January 25th 2006 - 07:07:14 AM |
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Name: |
Elisa |
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Comments: |
Hi Jan, I was just struggling against that passage, especially after having read Italian translation.
First time, I grasped “master” as Snape himself, the Slytherin’s master, Draco’s teacher, and “HIM” as Snape again , that word said with a mix of “respect” and of “the teacher I had but NOW I think not to have anymore or not to have ever had”, the finally – I don’t want YOU… - said by a full of scorn Draco. Has it got a sense? Instead, re-reading….mhm….a doubt has risen to my mind …that master could be Voldemort (even if, has he ever called him so?), an so on. Reading it in Italian, make me think this. But why should Draco have something to conceal from Voldemort? And why should Bella have taught him? |
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Wednesday, January 25th 2006 - 01:56:40 AM |
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Name: |
Jan |
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Comments: |
I was just looking up something in Half-Blood Prince:
I've noticed several times people discussing Snape's secret meeting with Malfoy at the end of Chapter Fifteen: Malfoy, angrily says, . . . 'don't look at me like that! I know what you're doing, I'm not stupid, but it won't work - I can stop you!' There was a pause and then Snape said quietly, 'Ah. . .Aunt Bellatrix has been teaching you Occlumency, I see. What thoughts are you trying to conceal from your master, Draco?' 'I'm not trying to conceal anything from HIM, I just don't want YOU butting in!' Others seem to think that Snape means Voldemort when he says 'your master,' as Draco does, but I think Snape means himself, as Draco's head-of-house and potions master. Snape is saying 'what thoughts are you trying to hide from ME?' Draco is saying, in effect, 'YOU'RE not my master, bub, I've moved beyond you - now my master is the top guy!' It's a put-down to Snape. At the party just before, Harry notices that Snape looks almost afraid of Malfoy for an instant. |
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Tuesday, January 24th 2006 - 09:05:55 PM |
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Name: |
Jan |
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Comments: |
Wow! Cool discussion!
Rebecca - I think Lupin was referring to himself about Lily to Harry but that it could be a clue to us from JKR (or a red herring!). I think Harry-Snape is more personal for an additional reason: that Harry can barely remember Voldemort killing his parents - it's just a fact he knows. But with Snape killing DD, Harry was fully aware of it. I think Snape probably must die in the end - for a strange reason - that someone that seriously screwed up emotionally can't be happy. At least he can redeem himself by saving or helping Harry somehow to get Voldemort. Weird thinking? AR is ALWAYS saying, 'You have to wonder why he's always saving their lives.' Is he leading us off the path only to be jerked back on later? Or is it a true clue???? THE NOSE KNOWS! (Sorry - I couldn't resist that) Kathy - I was really fascinated by your theory that DD was already dead, in essence, and that 'Snape "put a stopper in death" until DD could prepare Harry.' I kept feeling, as I read it, that DD knew he was not long for this world. And he kept getting weaker and weaker. We know Snape saved his life when DD's hand was damaged and it never got any better. Neat theory - I'll have to play around with that! I agree with Alfan that Snape is 'bad' but not totally 'evil', but that's mainly because I don't believe people ARE totally evil. In the Robin Hood extras, Alan says he never plays 'villains' but learns about his character: 'What does he want? What is he willing to do to get it? What happens if he does or doesn't get it? Other people judge what they do to be unacceptable.' People, from their own POV always have their own reasons for doing what they do but if what they are willing to do includes killing/hurting the rest of us, we will protect ourselves from them. I think 'bad' people either feel justified in what they do or they're so seriously warped mentally or emotionally they have no moral compass anymore. |
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Tuesday, January 24th 2006 - 06:04:11 PM |
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Name: |
Elaine |
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Comments: |
Jan, thanks for putting that quote in context. Ever since I read it in that Google alert, I've been trying to think where it came from. I missed it completely but because of that, I have lost all hope that Snape will come out top in the end. My latest view? Snape is as evil as Harry always thought he was. Maybe he is not totally FOR Voldemort, but he's definitely in it for himself! I think he killed Dumbledore and DD IS dead, no hope at all about that! And I think Harry will kill him - definitely! That's my prediction folks! |
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Tuesday, January 24th 2006 - 05:00:08 PM |
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Name: |
Alfan |
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E-mail address: |
Canada |
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Comments: |
Do you guys mind if i post a couple of hand drawn pictures of Snape that i found, they are so awesome.
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Tuesday, January 24th 2006 - 03:27:56 PM |
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Name: |
Alfan |
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E-mail address: |
Canada |
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Comments: |
Ok, dont shoot me. I think i can handle it if Snape turns out to be evil, just as long as there is lots of him in book seven and Alan plays him in movie seven. I mean i have a hate/love thing with his bad characters, in DH, RH and Quigly i love to watch him but i hate to see him knocked off at the end. I feel the same way here. Again, no matter which way she writes his ending ( oh and it will be his ending i believe) its a bit of brilliant writing. I mean most of us love Snape because of Alan, but i have many friends who hate the character of Snape more than Voldemort, and they dont like him in the movies either and wish Harry would end his miserable life( although they know who Alan is, they arent infatuated with him like me).
But if you ask me my head and heart say that although he is a bad person i dont think he is evil. It for me keeps coming back to all the hints in the movies, right from DD saying " Innocent until proven guilty, Severus"--to HBP when he asks Draco " what would your master think" not using our master.( dont get me started on all the other hints in book six). The one that gets me the most is DD stating over and over,,,,,,,,I trust Severus Snape. I know DD has been wrong before about the DADA teachers and a few other things like thinking old grudges can be easily forgoten but I TRUST DD, and thats good enough for me. You know i read in one of the Solving Harry Potter books, i think in the book 1-4 series something that stuck with me. It was when someone noticed that --Hermione is usually right, except when she is really upset and --Ron is usually wrong, except when he is joking If you re-read the books, thats a bang on statement.Really, it is. |
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Tuesday, January 24th 2006 - 03:02:48 PM |
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Name: |
Chris |
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Comments: |
Yup, I totally agree!
Also, yes, Kathy I too think he`ll bite the dust (how wondrfully put!). Hey, there isn`t anything more to look forward to so it will not be that hard on me. It would have been awful though if she killed him in 6. When I heard someone`s going to die (a major character) I instantaneously thought :Snape! But DD? I can live with that! ;) Oh and yes I too agree that Lupin generalised and possibly included Snape when reffering to the kindness of Harry`s mother. But I have to say for some reason I find that Leaky-Mugglenet interview to be rather disturbing... |
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Tuesday, January 24th 2006 - 12:21:56 PM |
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Name: |
Reedpipe |
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Location: |
CT |
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Comments: |
Hi Elisa! I think JKR said Harry-Snape is more personal because we now know that Snape was the one who told Voldemort about the prophecy, and was thus instrumental in the deaths of Harry's parents. And on top of that, Snape has been miserable to Harry during his school years (all that life-saving business notwithstanding), so Harry knows Snape on more of a personal level than Voldemort. |
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Tuesday, January 24th 2006 - 09:10:50 AM |
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Name: |
Elisa |
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Comments: |
Thanx all for posting these news, it's so easier for me to read here, than to have to look for them!!
A question, for you what does it mean? Why is it more personal?? Voldemort killed his parents, how could it be more personal? JKR: Well, okay, I'm obviously - Harry-Snape is now as personal, if not more so, than Harry-Voldemort. I can't answer that question because it's a spoiler, isn't it, whatever I say, and obviously, it has such a huge impact on what will happen when they meet again that I can't.... |
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Tuesday, January 24th 2006 - 08:31:49 AM |
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Name: |
Kathy |
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Comments: |
Don't have a chance to post a big message just wanted to let you know you guys are great and I enjoy your comments alot. Unfortunately I think the handwriting is on the wall that Snape will bite the dust in the last book. I think in the end he will sacrifice himself for Harry |
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Tuesday, January 24th 2006 - 01:23:30 AM |
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Name: |
Rebecca (Snapeluster) |
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Location: |
home again |
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Comments: |
Jan.."Also, Lupin told Harry in PoA (the movie, not sure about the book right now) that Lily saw the best in, particularly, those who couldn't see it in themselves - could apply to Snape as a teenager (not an adult)"
I said the SAME thing a few months ago watching PoA..that Lupin could have been referring to Snape in this instance. My husband said, "Dontcha think he's just talking about himself, being a werewolf and all?" Well, yeah, that too, but... :) This is also that scene with the "You have your mother's eyes...yadayadayada," right? Goes back to my non-theory of Snape/Lily and the EYES that keep popping up everywhere. Pun intended, now that I read that. |
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Monday, January 23rd 2006 - 06:09:51 PM |
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Name: |
Jan |
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Location: |
PA USA |
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E-mail address: |
jan.ramsey@verizon.net |
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Comments: |
Here's the text of that exact quote:
MA: OK, big big big book six question. Is Snape evil? JKR: [Almost laughing] Well, you've read the book, what do you think? ES: She's trying to make you say it categorically. MA: Well, there are conspiracy theorists, and there are people who will claim - JKR: Cling to some desperate hope [laughter] - . . . . JKR: Well, okay, I'm obviously - Harry-Snape is now as personal, if not more so, than Harry-Voldemort. I can't answer that question because it's a spoiler, isn't it, whatever I say, and obviously, it has such a huge impact on what will happen when they meet again that I can't. And let's face it, it's going to launch 10,000 theories and I'm going to get a big kick out of reading them so [laughs] I'm evil but I just like the theories, I love the theories. Personally, I think the idea that Snape has completely pulled the wool over DD's eyes makes DD look too gullible. Also, I tend to think Snape has his own motivations and those are what drive his actions - not DD's or Voldemort's. In book 7 DD told Harry that Snape didn't realize Voldemort was going to kill someone he knew. What would Snape, of all people, care whether it was simply 'someone he knew?' Surely there's more to it than that! Also, Lupin told Harry in PoA (the movie, not sure about the book right now) that Lily saw the best in, particularly, those who couldn't see it in themselves - could apply to Snape as a teenager (not an adult). This goes toward a Snape/Lily connection of some sort, although if so he eventually rejected her. The relationship wouldn't have to be romantic. Sure will be fun finding out, though, won't it???! |
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Monday, January 23rd 2006 - 04:59:42 PM |
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Name: |
Chris |
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Comments: |
Oh that interview was MURDER to my eyes! I couldn`t believe it when I read it I first thought "OMG, this is not possible...he truly IS evil! Mwaaaaah!!!" but then I cooled down a bit and thought it through and realised that I would have probably said the exact same thing. However she DID mention this in other intervies as well : we should keep an eye on Snape becaus there`s more to him that meets the ye. This, leaving aside her statement saying that he has NO excuse because unlike Voldy he WAS loved by someone. And 2007 is SOOOO far away, darn it! ;) |
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Monday, January 23rd 2006 - 03:07:16 PM |
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Name: |
Rebecca (Snapeluster) |
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Location: |
werk |
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Comments: |
Reedpipe, how freaky! Posting at the same time and all..
yes, somewhat out of context! |
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Monday, January 23rd 2006 - 03:05:49 PM |
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Name: |
Rebecca (Snapeluster) |
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Location: |
here! |
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Comments: |
This is a continuation of a reply from the main GB board, it's HP related, so I continued it here!
Carol-- I had that article today in my ST. Pete Times, and I've been trying to look up that quote all day!! lol. I knew it wasn't quite right, slightly taken out of context. Here is her reply in regard to that question ( and the "clinging desperately to some hope" is not an exact quote, it's her PARTIAL reply to ANOTHER question of: is Snape evil? ES: Was Dumbledore planning to die? JKR: [Pause.] Do you think that's going to be the big theory? MA & ES: Yes. It’ll be a big theory. JKR: [Pause.] Well, I don't want to shoot that one down. [A little laughter.] I have to give people hope. MA: It goes back to the question of whether Snape is a double-double-double-triple- JKR: [Laughs] Double-double-quadruple-to-the-power-of - yeah. MA: …whether this had been planned, and since Dumbledore had this knowledge of Draco the whole year, had they had a discussion that said, "Should this happen, you have to act as if it is entirely your intention to just walk forward and kill me, because if you don't, Draco will die, the Unbreakable Vow, you'll die," and so on — JKR: No, I see that, and yeah, I follow your line there. I can't — I mean, obviously, there are lines of speculation I don't want to shut down. Generally speaking, I shut down those lines of speculation that are plain unprofitable. Even with the shippers. God bless them, but they had a lot of fun with it. It's when people get really off the wall — it's when people devote hours of their time to proving that Snape is a vampire that I feel it's time to step in, because there's really nothing in the canon that supports that. |
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Monday, January 23rd 2006 - 02:58:35 PM |
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Name: |
Reedpipe |
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Location: |
Not working even though I should be |
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Comments: |
Re: the Washington Post article posted in the main GB: the quote about "clinging to some desperate hope" comes from JKR's interview with the MuggleNet and Leaky Cauldron founders, here:
http://www.mugglenet.com/jkrinterview.shtml When read in context, I don't think the quote is quite as conclusive as it would first appear. (At least I hope not.) ;) |
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Monday, January 23rd 2006 - 02:51:43 PM |
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Name: |
Reedpipe |
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Location: |
Trying to spell my own name right |
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Comments: |
Oops, I didn't mean to mislead anyone on the author of that editorial. "Neville, Thunder Stealer" was written a year or so ago by my friend Danielle. It comes to the same conclusion that Katje did. Sorry for the confusion! |
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Monday, January 23rd 2006 - 02:41:46 PM |
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Name: |
Chris |
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Comments: |
Katje, it was you who wrote that? OMG i`m such a fan of those editorials! Wooohoo!!! *runs off to read again* |
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Monday, January 23rd 2006 - 12:31:17 PM |
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Name: |
Reepipe |
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Location: |
CT |
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Comments: |
Hi, everyone! I've not much to add to all your great thoughts, but re: Neville, a good friend of mine wrote a fantastic editorial for Mugglenet called "Neville, Thunder Stealer," which you can search for here (can't seem to post the direct link):
http://www.mugglenet.com/search/index.php Basically it's about how Neville could be The One. Yes, JKR has definitely said Neville is NOT The One (my friend and I like to think she was responding to her editorial), but parts of that theory really do make sense and JKR said it was an "ingenious" speculation, or something like that. So how do you like that, Katje? You're ingenious! :) |
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Monday, January 23rd 2006 - 08:48:53 AM |
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Name: |
Elisa |
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Comments: |
Hi Rebecca!!
About the locket, if Regulus replaced the locket, should have known what specific object to find, "to make another similar" (more or less). Could Voldemort have created more than one Horcrux with just one death (the woman who had got all those treasure)? And about the ring, why Morfin has his father's ring, if Marvolo came back home from Azkaban before him, dying just then? Who did keep the ring during that time? |
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Monday, January 23rd 2006 - 05:24:53 AM |
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Name: |
Rebecca (Snapeluster) |
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Location: |
here |
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Comments: |
Yes, something along those lines, but that's all I can come up with. And yes, it's just a thought, probably way off base, but RRRRGGGHHH! This is so frustrating. |
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Sunday, January 22nd 2006 - 05:15:27 PM |
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Name: |
Chris |
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Comments: |
Snape- Lily connection? Meaning that when he looks at Harry (him looking deep into Harry`s eyes happens a lot as i`m sure everyone noticed)he sees his mother? well that could be it if you believe he really had feelings for her. That would indeed explain a lot but I don`t know if JKR would go with that story.... |
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Sunday, January 22nd 2006 - 03:04:08 PM |
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Name: |
Rebecca (Snapeluster) |
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Location: |
Clearwater |
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Comments: |
Chris--Ooohh, when did she say that? It sounds familiar. Hmmm, I wonder what happened to her wand after Godric's Hollow? Could it make a reappearance for Harry's cause? Or maybe she's referring to when Lily had it, something she performed with it, but that could be anything, and isn't much of a clue one way or the other. Too many possibilities.
Elisa--On the subject of Lily, yes, JKR keeps bringing up the importance of Lily's eyes in regards to Harry's looking the same. YES, we know he's got HIS MOTHER'S EYES. But WHAT exactly is that going to point to? (Snape/Lily connection, if I remember, was pointed out as one possibility. I'm leaning toward that being one reason. Anything else? |
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Sunday, January 22nd 2006 - 10:30:04 AM |
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Name: |
Chris |
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Comments: |
Another thing troubles me. What did JKR mean when she said it`s very important that Lily`s wand was very good for charms? |
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Sunday, January 22nd 2006 - 10:08:47 AM |
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Name: |
Elisa |
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Comments: |
We don’t know anything about Regulus, just two brief lines; he didn’t seem a wizard capable of deceiving Voldemort. My doubt is most of all, why did he do it, if he did? You can try to get out from D'eaters, but arriving to steal the Horcrux…it requests courage, ability, what was the cause? I read somewhere that Sirius’ death was requested by the events, that he couldn’t survive; why do all Harry loves die? His parents, Sirius, DD, it’s strange, Voldemort won’t survive to him, but nor others seem to have hope…I also would be intrigued to know why all say Harry has got his mum’s eyes, is it said by case or not? I agree that Snape should have played a rule during Potter’s night, probably the only thing which could have redeemed to DD’s eyes.
About Draco, I don’t know, I find strange that Snape could have done a murder to save a kid, if I was Voldemort and I had given Draco that order, the result wouldn’t have satisfied me at all, I couldn’t accept his failure, I’d kill him, anyway. |
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Saturday, January 21st 2006 - 03:47:33 PM |
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Name: |
Chris |
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Comments: |
Blue Brothers- ROFL How true! ;)
Kathy- Like...wow! :) I agree with every single piece there! I checked the JKR interviews I had in my computer (yes, I keep collecting everything. The advantage of a super-sized hard ;))and she mentioned Neville. I forgot about that. But why Neville?! That really seems like an odd pick. But she must have her reasons, never the less. I can`t believe I hadn`t thought that the destruction of the ring could have had that lethal impact! It all makes sense now! It`s even mentioned in the book that Harry notices his hand becoming darker and darker. Hmmm...I always thought he "was already dead" but I thought that was the effect of that greenish thingy in the cave. But yes, your theory makes a lot of sense, Kathy! |
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Saturday, January 21st 2006 - 02:36:06 PM |
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Name: |
Rebecca (Snapeluster) |
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Location: |
couldn't tell you |
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Comments: |
RE Chris:The diary, the cup, the ring, the locket in Grimauld Place (most likely), what else? Nagini? what else?? ;)
Umm, something of Ravenclaw or Gryffindor, no? And of course, the last bit o' soul, in Voldy. *just got image of Voldemort breaking into Blues Brothers song "I'm a Soouuuull Man..."* lol Kathy, re: your list #'s 4,7,9, and last note on Neville: YES!!! on all of these! ....I have nothing more to add at the moment :)... |
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Saturday, January 21st 2006 - 10:30:10 AM |
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Name: |
Kathy |
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Comments: |
Hi Everyone,
Enjoyed reading all your theories, you guys are GOOD. My particular thoughts are: 1. DD is already dead. What ever caused his hand to shrivel really killed him but Snape "put a stopper in death" until DD could prepare Harry. So Snape really didn't kill him in the end. I also think like Chris that he was there to protect Harry and get the attention away from his presence. 2. By Snape "killing" DD he saved Malfoy from committing a crime and allowing him time for redemption. 3. Somehow the tremendous anger that Harry generates adds to his power as a wizard. We see from Tonks how emotions change wizarding power. 4. I. too, think Snape was at the house the night Lily and James were killed. I think maybe Snape made an unbreakable vow to Lily to protect Harry. 5. Harry has memories of the night his family died. In HP1 he recounts "dreams" he has had. I think he has many answers himself but will have to take his memories out and look at them in the pensive to understand them. 6. Somehow DD knew Snape for before they were students. I think Snape killed his father and his mother took the blame for him. Probably not intentionally, but with the unruly teenage powers he saw his mother being abused and attacked his father. Somehow DD knew this....how this fits in I don't know. 7. I think JKR has Harry in charge of Kreacher for all the reasons you all named and also living in the Black house he has much information of the goings on there in the past even if he was not involved in the horcrux. 8. DD is really, really dead. But, I'll bet there are memories for Harry to check out in the pensive. Prehaps that was one thing DD wanted to do while his life was prolonged. 9. I don't think Snape is evil but I don't think he is all good either. Some self-serving or self-preserving streak in him. But, James and Sirius weren't all good either. I think JKR made it clear in some interview that Nevill was definitely NOT the chosen one. Anyway these are my musings---love speculating!!! |
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Friday, January 20th 2006 - 09:15:46 PM |
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Name: |
Chris |
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Comments: |
Katje, that would be awsome! I mean imagine the shock on everybody`s face if it happens! ;) I think I`d like Neville to play a bigger part in all of this. Yeah, his boggart seemed a bit exagerated, don`t you think? Snape? Come on, from someone who`s parents were tortured and sent to St. Mungo where they can`t even recognize him, you`d think he`d have a bigger fear than that one! Nicely spotted although I do not necessarily beliebe Harry ISN`t The One. Oh this whole "the one" thing makes me think of Matrix! ;) Anyway, I always thought "Why Neville?" Too many similarities! But for the time being I cannot say. Although it IS an interesting perspective! Well thought, Katje!
PS: From what I`ve read though, JK shot down the Harry-is-a-horcruz theory. I think that involves the scar to. :) How many of the horcruxes we know so far? The diary, the cup, the ring, the locket in Grimauld Place (most likely), what else? Nagini? what else?? ;) |
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Friday, January 20th 2006 - 05:01:22 PM |
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Name: |
Katje |
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Comments: |
Hello everybody, well, my theory is not completely worked out, but what if Neville is after all ‘The One’. He really picked up on the magic in the DA. So I share some ideas I have, but there al lose bits...
I know Dumbledore said that Voldemort choose Harry, so by this event, Harry has become the one... Well, even Dumbledore makes mistakes... I read somewhere else that Neville could be on a memory spell. If he watched his parents getting tortured as a kid, his Grandmother could have made him forget... That could very well explain his clumsiness and forgetfulness... So there may be big surprise with Neville. If Hogwarts does not open after summer or will be closed down during the year, Neville and Luna will probably join Harry, Ron and Hermiony... What if he is not going home for Christmas and the memory charms are weakened? He might have memory's about Snape... Why is he so afraid of Snape? Just because he gets pestered in class or are they early memory's from the time his parents got tortured. Was Snape there to protect Neville? Did he fail his assignment? Can this has anything to do with D. trusting him? If the scar on Harry's forehead really is a Horcrux. Harry would have to sacrifice himself and leave Neville to finish Voldy of. I haven't got a clue what role Snape would play in all this, but my guess is that he knows more about the prophecy and the Harry and Neville connection. Just some thoughts... Feel free to comment in all sorts of ways |
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Friday, January 20th 2006 - 04:51:17 PM |
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Name: |
Chris |
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Comments: |
Well pointed out Elisa! Was Regulus such a skilled wizard after all? A theory I read is that when DD said that thing "he can`t kill you if your dead already" (I can`t remember the exact line but it was something like it) he was reffering to Regulus. That his death could have been faked, etc. Personally I don`t think the order is the witness protection program. :) Also I`ve always found it hard to believe this RAB-Regulus theory. Yes, it is the most plausible so far but it`s just that it`s a bit TOO obvious! JKR always managed to surprise me (well except the HBP title, I thought that might be ol` Snape :) ) and now suddenly everything seems to be explained in the fandom. IF it`s Regulus, however, and everyone was right about it all, then there will definetly be a shocking element attached. This seems to easy. "Snape is innocent, they planned it all along, RAB is Regulus,etc". I`ve been following the HP sites for some time now and that never happened before any other book. One possibility is that the fans have grown wiser :) or that JKR is planning a brilliant surprise taht will gun down all our theories. I think I`d like the second part better, I somehow feel I already read the final book. Ok, I AM against the obvious, RAB is not Regulus! There I said it! It`s highly possible I may be terribly wrong but I`ll stick with my instinct! Everybody thought DD was the HBP after all! ;) Well, most of them anyway, after JKR said it`s not Harry nor Voldy. And I showed THEM! Mu ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! :) Sorry, kidding. All she said about Regulus being RAB is that it`s a fine guess. She did not go "Bingo" or anything. Further more, IF you believe she is trying to fool the fandom into believeing Snape is guilty, then you can`t really believe everything she says, and that includes the RAB problem too. I do believe there is more to Kreacher and it may involve Horcruxes but I find it hard to believe Regulus played some major part in that. If Regulus didn`t die or anything, it would just be some muchy reunion with him and Harry, him probably playing the part Sirius had. Come on, how many "fathers" will this boy have until the end?! :) Well that`s my guess and I`m up against the world! ;) Oh this is fun! More questions, more questions! :) Where did everybody go???? Rebecca? Kathy? Reedpipe? Alfan? Helllooooo!!!! :) |
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Friday, January 20th 2006 - 01:48:32 PM |
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Name: |
Elisa |
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Comments: |
Ciao, I agree that there is a tangible reason that has persuaded DD to believe in S. I don't think S might have just told him - Sorry.. -. DD must, most of all, protect Harry, how could have allowed S to teach at Hogwarts, having the slighest idea he was still a Deatheaters? Maybe, there's something else of the prophecy we don't know, something linked with S.
I can't understand how Regulus managed to steal the Horcrux...if it was K with him, how could their magical potential be equal to the DD's one? |
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Friday, January 20th 2006 - 12:25:47 PM |
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Name: |
Chris |
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Comments: |
Hey Elisa! Ok, this troubled student *proudly points at herself* is gonna try answering your question although it really may be rubbish after all. But we`re here to speculate, aren`t we? I must say that I read many editorial in my time :) especially those regarding this matter but I can`t say I found any theory that appealed to me. Firstly because I can`t picture Snape as the kind of person who`d go to DD and say "look, dude, I`ve seen the error of my ways and I`m here to serve and protect." :) That`s rubbish. I think that it must have been something very tangible, something very powerful for DD to have him at Hogwarts. DD must have indeed been a trusting man but under NO circumstance would place his students in danger by allowing a former DE to TEACH at his school. I do believe (at least I can`t disagree with that fact) keeping from the DA position must have happened because he`d thought that this might bring the old habbits back. I must say JKR worried me when she said all those things about DD, that his intelligence blinded him. DD himself said in HBP that his mistakes are larger than some people`s due to that particular intelligence. But there is a twist somewhere:remember the Spinner` End chapter, right? Well how come Bellatrix asked all the right questions? The answer he gave her shot down EVERY SINGLE motive someone could use to say "look, he`s not all that bad!" To me, it just looks like JKR wanted to lead us on the wrong path right from he very begining of the novel. How come all the characters that WERE "evil" all along didn`t expose themselves until the end of a book? Snape somehow manages to step forward right from the very begining. In all the books, the theories from the begining were totally wrong! The end surprised everyone! well somehow HBP confirmes that begining. Really? I think not. Snape might not be good after all, he might just watch his own skin from being ripped off. He is afterall a Slytherin! But he`s far from being the ultimate baddie! I think we could find a comparison between him and Peter P. (and again I wonder how was he EVER sorted into Griffindor?! Him and Percy are a mistery to me! well Percy might just prove the opposite, but Peter?!) Peter is also cunning. A traitor. A COWARD! All those things Snape is "supposed" to be. But I find that the phrase "don`t call me coward" says a lot. He might not be the exponent of quintessential bravery but there are many formes you can face danger and protect what matters. Isn`t that the definition of bravery? Oh but I wondered so far from the subject! A theory I like (but not fully aree to it) is that DD trusted him because he heard the ENTIRE prophecy at The Hog`s Head but only gave Voldemort half of what he knew. Also if it`s true that the other person who was at Godric`s Hollow the night the Potters were killed IS INDEED Snape, then I think the reason could be found there. I just don`t know how to link those two together.
As for how can Snape help Harry, I dare say they won`t meet until the end. Perhaps momments before the final confrontation with Voldemort. Voldy will be sure that Snape`s on his side, Harry will shout and scream and maybe try to kill him, Snape will eventually join the good side. :) And then Voldy will kill him. On his death Snape tells Harry a great secret and Harry, enfuriated will kick Voldy` ass! :) That is a typical redemtion scene. However I have my doubts JKR will go for that. Mabe they`ll meet earlier, Snape will help him again and Harry won`t realise it and hen hey`ll meet again in the end. Same scenario. :) I dunno, I`m not Sybill you know! :) Kiddin, kidding, I loved diving into this :) All of you, please, jump in if you have any other idea! |
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Thursday, January 19th 2006 - 12:10:33 PM |
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Name: |
Elisa |
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Comments: |
Ciao Chris, thanks for welcome. Let me introduce myself, I'm from Italy, 32 years old, a daughter, a husband (just one...) and a work as employee. I love Snape and AR, all has started first time I "had to watch" HP1 with my daughter, now I force her to do it!!
However, thanks again for your explanations, I'm firmly convinced S's innocence, my mind doesn't want to believe anything else. Surely, I understand he isn't a "pure" soul, but I think at the moment, a great help for DD. I'm scared of what could happen with next book, will he survive or not? In your opinion, why does DD believe so much in him? Why is he so trustful? DD has doubts about Voldemort since the beginning (without not to know his real task), why Snape? How could Snape help Harry? Hugs. |
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Wednesday, January 18th 2006 - 02:31:25 AM |
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Name: |
Reedpipe |
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Location: |
CT |
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Comments: |
Well put, Chris! :) |
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Tuesday, January 17th 2006 - 08:00:46 PM |
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Name: |
Chris |
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Comments: |
Hey Elisa, welcome aboard! Just to clear the air, I also understood more from the English version.
JKR knows what she means when she writes every single word, unfortunately the translaters DONT! Oh and just to pin point my theory, I would really like to believe he is after all, on the good side. "However the circumstances are suspicious" ;) JKR told her readers more than once to keep an eye on him and not to feel sory for him. Because she IS aware of the fandom`s reactions, there is no doubt. I don`t necessarily think DD and Snape PLANNED it all. it`s not like they stood at some table late at night, with a glass of wine, discussing the best way to let DD have it! ;) I think they may have discussed it but rather vaguely. There certainly WAS some kind of agreement, and there are clues to that in the scene where Hagrid told Harry he heard them argueing AND in the scene where DD tells Harry he needs no one but Snape. Oh and I also believe that this "plea" was for Harry`s sake. It`s mentioned that Snape looked around when he reached the balcony or whatever it was. It was impossible for him not to observe the existence of a second broom near DD`s. And with all his intelligence and "talents" I think he realised who it was. So I think DD`s plea was rather a plea to protect Harry, to finish this somehow and flee as fast as he can, before the DEs realise Harry`s presence there. Yes, it`s obviously the revulsion and hatred on SS`s face was for himself and not for DD. But I think his decision was took right there and then. He had to chose and I think he knew DD would rather sacrifice himself for the sake of the order and so on. I don`t think he`s all good, that`s for sure. There has to be a catch somewhere. But the evolution of the plot line so far, everybody`s impression on him, this most horrible deed at the end of HBP make me believe more and more that he WILLmost probably sacrifice himself at some point. Or find another form of redemption. |
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Tuesday, January 17th 2006 - 05:01:19 PM |
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Name: |
Elisa |
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Comments: |
Hi AFNH, do you want to smile? I read the English version last July and now the Italian one; well, I've understood more at that time. The strange in fact is that, despite my English is terrible, I payed more attention to the words, to the sentences, helping surely with vocabulary, but the most came automatically. If you'd like, what are your theories about DD's death? Is Snape a murder or not? Maybe you talked a lot on this topic!!! Sorry!!!
Thanks Claudia for the link. |
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Tuesday, January 17th 2006 - 02:27:19 PM |
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Name: |
Claudia |
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Location: |
GA |
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Comments: |
I don't know if yall will enjoy this Snape impression or not but if you're interestee..... Someone sweet friend sent me this clip of the Snape impression from Dead Ringers Christmas Special which aired 23/12/2005. (notice since it aired on Brit tv that I used the Brit date format????? *grin*) The reason I can't thank the person that sent it by name is because the YouSendIt message didn't contain the name. Whoever sent it, please let us know who you are so we can thank you properly! |
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Tuesday, January 17th 2006 - 02:08:01 PM |
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Name: |
AFNH |
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Comments: |
I can believe it, Elisa! Even in English you have to think about what he is saying, as there often seems to be double meanings to the words he chooses.
If Snape is still on the "good" side (and most of us here think so!), he knows he has to be very careful what he says to Bella, as she distrusts him so much, and she would happily betray him to Voldemort. As for Quirrell, Snape suspected him, but didn't have any real proof. I think it was Snape's way of trying to get Quirrell to show whether he was on the Order/Dumbledore's side, or Voldemort's side, scare him into revealing his plans. Dumbledore would have known about Snape's suspicions too. It must be a hard life being a double agent! |
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Tuesday, January 17th 2006 - 01:45:27 PM |
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Name: |
Elisa |
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E-mail address: |
mirtilla19@yahoo.it |
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Comments: |
Oh, yes thanks AFNH, it helps. I've known about DD's injury, but Snape is very evasive in his answers to Bella, and if you've to read it in a foreign language every word changes the meaning. So thanks again.
Snape tells her to have believed that prof. Quirrell would steal the stone just for himself, thinking Voldemort was died, but why, in HP1, Snape tells Quirrell to choose who to give his loyalty? Why do he lie? |
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Tuesday, January 17th 2006 - 04:37:45 AM |
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Name: |
AFNH |
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Comments: |
Just thinking about Katje's theory about Kreacher. If he was part of any plan by Regulus Black to steal the Horcrux, Kreacher will hold many clues to what really happened. As Harry now has "control" of Kreacher, he will probably have to command him to explain what exactly happened, as Kreacher certainly wouldn't tell him voluntarily!
Elisa, DD's injury happened when he destroyed the Horcrux, not the during the duel, so you can take it to mean "since then". Hope that helps! |
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Monday, January 16th 2006 - 03:26:02 PM |
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Name: |
Elisa |
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Location: |
office |
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Comments: |
Hi all, nice to meet you. Just two words, I'm from Italy, so PLEASE..., forgive my English and my silly questions...
I read HP6 in English and during these days, in my country is out the Italian version, so many doubts have arose in my mind. Might you help me? Well, the poin is this: (HP6 book) Snape is speaking to Bellatrix: "I am pleased to say, however, that Dumbledore is growing old. The duel with the Dark Lord last month shook him. He has since sustained a serious injury because his reactions are slower than they once were." In this phrase, in your opinion, did the injury happen during the duel or because of the duel has tired him or after? Does "since" mean just from a fixed point or something else like "since then"? Does Snape is lying to Bellatrix? (because we know DD got injuried because of Horcrux) So is the episode of Horcrux before of that moment? Thanks!!! |
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Monday, January 16th 2006 - 02:33:55 AM |
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Name: |
Reedpipe |
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E-mail address: |
CT |
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Comments: |
Great find, Rebecca! Interesting that there are no deceased people . . . . Also, the list includes Draco Malfoy. |
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Wednesday, January 11th 2006 - 10:44:32 AM |
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Name: |
Rebecca (Snapeluster) |
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Location: |
work, for a while longer |
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Comments: |
http://www.mugglenet.com/jkrcom/birthdayarchive.shtml
Here's a link on mugglenet that lists all the b-days JKR listed on her site last year...no DE's! And no Voldie. No deceased people in 2006 either. I think that's a good sign as far as Good!Snape is concerned. (This link provided by another post-er on another HP fansite, I'm not taking credit!) |
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Tuesday, January 10th 2006 - 04:20:57 PM |
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Name: |
Rebecca |
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Location: |
surfing |
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Comments: |
Very interesting idea, Reedpipe.
I went back to her site and snooped around, but I have no idea of how, if at all, there is a way to see the previous birthday posts. I also tried to search online re:that subject, but came up empty. Hmmm. Just saw GoF for the sixth (and last) time yesterday. You know, in honor of Snape's b-day. Yeah, that was it. lol. ~Rebecca (Snapeluster) |
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Monday, January 9th 2006 - 07:18:27 PM |
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Name: |
Reedpipe |
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Location: |
CT |
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Comments: |
I find it mildly interesting that JKR wishes Snape a "Happy Birthday" today. Does anyone know if she's given birthday felicitations to other known Death Eaters in the past? 'Cause if not, could Severus really be a Death Eater? |
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Monday, January 9th 2006 - 10:01:17 AM |
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Name: |
Alfan |
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Location: |
Canada |
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Comments: |
Rebecca, i agree with you on two things. First of all, i too agree that Snape is still good. The first clue i got in HBP was when he was talking with Draco. Snape says to Draco
"ah, Aunt Bellatrix has been teaching you Occulmency, what would YOUR master think". Why didnt he refere to him as OUR master.The rest of the book just fell into place, there is no way DD would beg to anyone, did he not say in book five "there are worse things than death Tom" and " death is the next great adventure". DD was so not afraid of death and would not beg to anyone who he suddenly thought betrayed him as Snape looked like he has done. He asked Snape to do it because he is THE ONLY ONE capable of doing it. And lets not forget the battle with Harry. Snape, a dark figure who loathed Harry since he arrived 5 years earlier, a kid who has been a thorn in his side since he met him, a kid who he has obviously hated is at his mercy and what does Snape do? He tells him to keep his mouth shut and his mind closed, doesnt throw a serious curse at Harry and stops the others when they do.I found that so odd for a man who's cover has just been blown, a man who is as bitter as Snape not take at least one pot shot at this insufferable brat--odd. I agree that the clues were all ther and also someithing tha DD said. "innocent until proven guilty" The second thing i agree with you is , i too have a miserable cold and it sucks. |
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Sunday, January 8th 2006 - 11:31:10 AM |
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Name: |
Katje |
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Comments: |
I read somewhere that Regulus could have had the help from Kreacher to get the horcrux. As you know the boat only registred magicigans and Kreacher is merely a house elf. It made sense to me and it explains why Kreacher took the locket at number 12 when they wanted to through it away. He knew how valuable it was...
The letter from Regulus to Voldie would say 'I' because house elfs are not realy counting, are they? |
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Sunday, January 8th 2006 - 05:44:02 AM |
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Name: |
Rebecca (Snapeluster) |
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Location: |
With a Crappy Cold |
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Comments: |
Okay, just re-read HBP, and I will eat my own hand if Snape's really evil. It was so obvious this time (see all previous posts regarding his innocence posted by me or anyone else out there, lol).There is NO WAY.
I posted this question on another forum just now, but what do you all think: How the heck did RAB (Regulus, I'm convinced) get the horcrux in the first place, without dying? DD needed Harry's help the whole way through, but somehow RAB was able to get the horcrux, switch it with the fake, and leave his letter to Voldy in it for him to find. Did I miss something? And yes, I sure do see Alan Rickman in my head now as Snape,(mmmmmm, yep, he's a sexy git) but, EVEN SO, I'm still convinced that JKR's Snape is not all bad. *Twiddles thumbs, waiting for next book to drop out of the sky miraculously* |
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Friday, January 6th 2006 - 07:56:56 PM |
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Name: |
Miriam Heijdemann |
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Location: |
Almelo, the Netherlands |
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Comments: |
Hello everyone,
Like many of you I also find it hard to accept that it was Snape who killed Dumbledore. Maybe the trouble is, that if we think of Snape, we see mr. Rickman in our imagination (at least I do). He makes Snape more human in the film than in the book. My husband, daughter and I all read the book and it is fun to talk about the things and how things might develop in the future. I hope that Snape turns out not to be that bad as JKR makes it appear, but honestly, I fear the worst. And I also hope that in the last book Harry will survive and destroy Voldemort and that Harry himself will marry Ginny, for they fit so well together. Oh well.... we will see. I hope that JKR will be finishing her 7th book soon for we all look forward to read the final part, aren't we? |
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Wednesday, January 4th 2006 - 02:34:10 AM |
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Name: |
kathy |
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Location: |
rainy California |
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Comments: |
I was re-reading book one and in the very beginning harry talks about having "dreams" of obviously the night his parents died, I think Harry has many of the answers in his own head if he chooses to take the memories out and examine them in the pensive.
I think DD and SS kept Draco from killing DD as a measure of protecting him he is after all still a child and should be protected from choices made really by Voldy that he can't undo and would have to live with. He accepted the assignment out of fear rather than personal conviction. |
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Tuesday, January 3rd 2006 - 03:34:22 AM |
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Name: |
Christina |
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Comments: |
You know I read in an editorial once, I think it was on mugglenet but maybe I`m wrong, many HP sites have that section (which I think it`s a marvellous way for children especially but for adults alike to make full use of their imagination, writing skills and insight) this assumpiton that when Snape said that "he" wants him to do it in the end (Spinner`s End) actually meant DD and not Voldy...Well personally I don`t believe that,I don`t think JKR was actually hinting at that exact thing, but I found it a nice interpretation none the less. There are many things out there, many speculations, ideas and heories that, even if they are incorrect or different from what JKR had in mind, could be valid in the story. For anyone who`s interested, one of the best HP analysis sites I`ve ever come across is www.hogwartsprofessor.com . John Granger seems like a wonderful writer and critic. |
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Monday, January 2nd 2006 - 12:11:46 PM |
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Name: |
AlanRiZhoTT |
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Location: |
Nebraska |
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E-mail address: |
www.ptcruizerchik@aol.com |
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Comments: |
I really dont think that Severus Snape is bad I mean all of the times that he has saved Harry Potter. First from the werewolf and sometimes there is times where you really dont notice that Severus Snape is saving Harry but there are a lot.
Then again he did try to get rid of Harry and Ron in the second book/movie. Sometimes I think that Snape is just trying to disguise as bad guy but really good. Although he is a deatheater I think he may be pretending or just very very confused he doesnt know what side to be on really. If he quits being a deatheater it would be like making a death wish for himself. If he really wanted to be remembered as good wouldnt he risk his life to be known as that wouldnt he want to save Harry instead of kill him. There is also "Snapes Worst Memory" in book 5 that you would have to read thought to understand. I would really like to know what J.K. Rowling is going to do in the last book. Which I definately wish wasnt the last but it is until J.K. may decide something else. I would love to see Severus Snape in the SEVENTH movie and I really hope that, that happens. I love Alan Rickman we will have to see what happens with him me hoping he doesnt die of course! |
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Sunday, January 1st 2006 - 11:35:37 PM |
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Name: |
NativeMoon |
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Location: |
London |
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Comments: |
I think the answers to these questions are in Book 6. Voldie gave Draco the task out of revenge for Lucius' failure knowing that Draco would never be able to do it. Draco's death would send a clear message to Lucius and to the rest of the DE Ranks.
Snape said in The Spinner's End that he was of the mindset that Voldemort meant for him to have to do the deed in the end. I dont think in that moment he knew what 'it' was - but I agree with the sentiment. Snape grabbed onto Draco and then Disapparated after the events in the Astronomy Tower. What happens from there is anyone's guess and there are several scenarios which I will spare you all from LOL. DD did say in the American version of the book that the deaths of the Malfoys could be faked and they could be hidden away quite thoroughly. I still have to believe that there are at least a couple in the Order that could manage this. But given the circumstances in the Astronomy Tower - I would expect for Draco to die at some point in Book 7. Everyone cant make to the end and it cant be only minor characters that loose their lives. Draco is as good a candidate as any... Given how the Vanishing Cabinets work its not strange that the DEs got into the castle. It was the only way they could have managed it - and we had a clue from the earlier books how it worked. Draco being upset in the bathroom is just Draco being the true coward that he is. DM is all mouth - he has the gruesome twosome of Crabbe & Goyle to do his dirty work...but that wouldnt be acceptable with the Dark Lord ever. DD knew all along about Draco's plan and said so. He said that Draco had made feeble attempts all year... Draco didnt redeem himself at the end of Book 6 - he chickened out because he IS a chicken all mouth and no action as he tends to be; the incident with Harry's nose notwithstanding - there is a huge difference. Where we wind up with Snape at the end of Book 6 is that the Daily Prophet reports that he is being hunted and is on the run. I dont think anyone really knows where he is - but the general assumption will be that he is with Voldemort. We know from JKR herself that Harry will meet Severus Snape again in Book 7. As for Draco - if he manages to survive it will only be because of Snape...and I still believe the same to be true for Harry as well... Sev |
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Sunday, January 1st 2006 - 02:51:44 PM |
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Sabine |
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Location: |
GA |
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Christina - I think that Narcissa was right on the money when she said that Voldie gave Draco the task out of revenge for Lucius' failure. Voldie knew that it would scare the you-know-what out of Draco to actually have to kill Dumbledore. Come to think of it: maybe Voldie didn't think that Draco could do it in the first place? Sheesh, this is getting confusing! LOL
As far as Draco and Snape leaving the DE's behind: they all apparated independently anyway, so each one of them could have gone anywhere. No matter, it should be interesting to see where JKR is going with this in book 7! :-) |
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Sunday, January 1st 2006 - 12:03:58 PM |
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Christina |
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Comments: |
Well the thing is that Voldy apparently doesn`t know about the Unbreakable Vow. I ccouldn`t understand why would Voldy give Draco that assignement in the first place. Why not do it himself, it`s clearly he would have wanted the glory. How could he have imagined that a kid could do it when he failed? I thing`s there`s more to the story and we shall find the missing pieces in the final book. What stroke me as terribly odd was Narcissa`s plea to Snape. It`s obvious that he is KNOWN to be an extremely powerful wizard.If not how could Narcissa imagine he would manage it where Voldy failed? Well if we consider Snape to be good after all (and who doesn`t here? :) ) I think we have two options.
1. Snape and Draco go in hiding together (but that seems a bit unlikely, I think Snape has to keep his position amongst the DE or DD`s death (if we presume it to be planned after all) would have been in vain. So this option transforms itself into - Snape manages to hide Draco and fool Voldy into believing..whatever! (my mind can`t go that far! :) ) 2. There is a twist to all this and Snape and Draco both return to Voldy. Come what may! ;) And then Snape makes full use of his theatrical abilities and keeps Draco safe. So both ways, we shall find Snape protecting Draco to the very end. But I think Draco was reffering (when crying in the bathroom) more to the fact that he can`t find a solution to bring the DE into the castle. That was the first obstacle he encountered. But don`t you find it a little bit strange they managed to enter Hogwarts at all? The whole protection and all, where was that? When talking to Draco about this (and actually the whole discussionthey had in the tower) DD seemed more interested in showing Harry how it was all done and planned. I wouldn`t be surprised if DD knew all along about Draco`s plan, or at least part of it. Oh and there`s one more thing! come to think of it Snape and Draco didn`t manage to flee on their own, they had help which means they couldn`t just depart and leave the DEs and Voldy. I do hope JKR doesn`t kill off Draco, he really seemed to turn around at the end of HBP and I think we could all use his example of redemption. |
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Sunday, January 1st 2006 - 11:40:34 AM |
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Sabine |
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Location: |
GA |
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I have a question for you guys: I'm re-reading HBP right now and just read the scene where Harry sees Draco crying in the bathroom and Draco says something like "He'll kill me if I can't do it!" Obviously referring to Voldie killing him if he can't kill Dumbledore. Seeing how in the end Snape kills Dumbledore, I was wondering whether both Snape and Draco would be able to return to Voledmort? I mean, I know that Voldie would be happy to see Dumbledore dead, but wouldn't he still be furious with Draco for not fulfilling his orders? And wouldn't Voldie be equally furious with Snape for not letting Draco kill Dumbledore but instead killing Dumbledore himself?
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Sunday, January 1st 2006 - 11:05:59 AM |
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Rebecca |
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Location: |
thinking hard....ouch |
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Severina quote-- I find it intriguing that he has "curtains of hair" - but not the curtains of "greasy" hair that Harry and those that hate him like to mention..
I'd not noticed that before, but yep, went and looked at my book, and he has "curtains of black hair"...no grease in sight. Hhmmmmmm...coincidence? I think not. kathy Comments: Has it occurred to anyone that Snape might not be what we think he is? Could he be someone impersonating him? I all of a sudden had this crazy idea. I'm thinking that we've been polyjuiced what, twice already, in the books, so I can't see JKR employing that tactic again. Maybe if it hadn't been done with anyone yet, it could fit. Besides, I want my Snape to be Snape-Snape, not Maybe-Snape! lol Reedpipe Comments: Re: Spinner's End . . . When Narcissa is pleading with Snape to help Draco, she says "Severus . . . please . . ." Does anyone else think the parallel to what Dumbledore says in THAT SCENE was deliberate... Yeah, possibly. Another thing I didn't pick up! LOTS of people PLEADING with Severus around here, huh? Well, at least two. I like it--he's in a power position. |
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Wednesday, December 28th 2005 - 07:32:55 PM |
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Severina |
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Hey Ladies *waves*
Kathy - OMG you know not once has that ever occurred to me! Now THAT would really be something if someone had been using Polyjuice Potion to impersonate him! But to do that they would to be very good with brewing - as that is supposed to be a really difficult one even for an expert... fascinating to think about! Wormtail or Bellatrix would be my guess... Reedpipe - I think there are some marvelous clues and allusions in that chapter along with new information. Very interesting parallels with what comes definately - and of course light shed on whats already come before. And did you notice that adults dont seem to see Snape in quite the same ways as Harry and Co do. I find it intriguing that he has "curtains of hair" - but not the curtains of "greasy" hair that Harry and those that hate him like to mention. He is also described as being "a sliver of a man" - I would bet Snape is very stressed and isnt eating much as he sounds skinnier than usual... We already know he doesnt sleep much - hence Harry always running into him late night in the castle...but there are such great details in the SE Chapter in Book 6 and a lot of it does shed very interesting light on Snape's character... Rebecca - LOL!! I am beyond convinced that JKR is adjusting her material along the way and she seems to be indicating as much from the interviews and articles I have been researching. She is clearly into the fandom, knowing about the shippers and reading the fan fics - I am with you; she had to have just read one when she wrote the SE chapter LOL! |
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Wednesday, December 28th 2005 - 04:41:57 AM |
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kathy |
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Comments: |
Has it occurred to anyone that Snape might not be what we think he is? Could he be someone impersonating him? I all of a sudden had this crazy idea. |
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Wednesday, December 28th 2005 - 12:01:18 AM |
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Reedpipe |
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Location: |
CT |
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Comments: |
Thanks, Severina -- I'll check those links!
Re: Spinner's End . . . When Narcissa is pleading with Snape to help Draco, she says "Severus . . . please . . ." Does anyone else think the parallel to what Dumbledore says in THAT SCENE was deliberate? |
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Tuesday, December 27th 2005 - 08:57:14 PM |
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Name: |
Rebecca |
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Location: |
here again |
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Comments: |
Quote: Re JKR and Romance – are you kidding me? The whole of the Spinner’s End Chapter in Book 6 reads like fan fiction!!
You've got that right! Holy cow, I got to that chapter yesterday in my re-read of HBP, and, dam*, it's good. All the little DETAILS she put in there, if you have the picture in your head of the whole scene, well it's---it's EXACTLY like a fanfic scene. Love it. *whew* She HAD to have been reading some fanfic before she wrote that. Went and bought the rest of the HP books this a.m.( Christmas present to meself). I'm on a roll... |
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Tuesday, December 27th 2005 - 07:03:34 PM |
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Severina |
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Comments: |
Actually I would wager that JKR has deviated over the course of the books from what she originally set out to do. In the beginning, it was said that all 7 were done, that she keeps them under lock and key AND that shed always written to an outline.
This from the same woman who has confirmed that she has just finished the outline for Book 7 and conveniently forgot for Book 6 that Quirrell was DADA professor for Hogwars for YEARS - Oooops about the job being cursed so that the teachers only last for one year in that job... She has always bemoaned the fact that the 'bad guys' are adored in the HP series - she talks about it a lot in interviews. As time has gone on and the fandom sprung to life and became the monster it is - I would wager she has changed things to shake us all up so that we dont get so complacent and happy. I wouldnt be surprised if this is the case with Snape and why THE SCENE that took place in Book 6 happened the way it did with him doing that deed... JKR doesnt like anyone coming close to the truth and shes admitted shes read fan fics that got it! So I would love to see her original books filled with the notes and stories versus whats published. Harry evolving? I will grant him the fact that considering the abuse of his relatives its a wonder he is basically a nice kid. But he has his faults - because no one is perfect. He has a LOT of growing up to do still - and he is going to need Snape - the dynamic trio are no match for Voldemort... |
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Tuesday, December 27th 2005 - 03:01:07 PM |
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Christina |
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Comments: |
ok I don`t have much time my back is killing me from carrying to many shoping bags so I will make this quick. Sorry the miss-typo that may follow but I don`t have time to edit this.
I am the first person to awknoledge the fact that Harry sometimes acts like a spoiled little brat! I mean in GoF and OOTP I was like GROW UP WILL YA, MATE! BUT! that`s the whole thing! he is not like that by nature, he has grown up so much and yes he may still seem narrow minded (especially about Snape) BUT you have to think things this way! We sit at home in our cosy armchairs reading and re-reading this, looking for editorials around the net, etc. They don`t have that! they just act that way because theyre in the fire! they can`t sit around and analyse all this mostly because the action is getting more and more complex and entrapping by each book. And take it the other way! he is a teenager, we`ve all been there I think it`s normal for him to react that way sometimes not to mention the fact that he is no ordinary boy. His familly - all dead, his godfather - the same, all this Voldy and DE stuff going around! it`s hell for him! I know this is fiction but if you try placing yourself in the shoes of such a character I am sure none would react better. (and god forbbid, I don`t mean that as an offense!) But he is brave and sensible and I think that shows especially when he is around DD or the Ministry,etc. He has evolved very much and I have to give him credit! He may not be the most complex character but he is one to be admired. Not as much as others but still. And about the romance! Maybe JKR is influenced by the fandom, none the less I especially said the majority of adult characters. Every relationship here has it`s purpouse and the teenage relationships well tehy just reflect reality at it`s best let`s say that! :) But stil! IF she had ben influenced by the fandom, that is not the case with Snape. I think that`s one of the few characters to which she has stayed true through the whole series. And as much as I would love to I just don`t see Snape in those romantic lights many people do. I would LOVE to be something there but I, trying to stay objective and detached, don`t see it. |
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Tuesday, December 27th 2005 - 02:51:27 PM |
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Severina |
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Comments: |
Hey Reedpip *waves* - please the more the merrier jump right it. Sometimes it goes quiet for AGES in here LOL.
Read these 3 parts of the HP Lexicon about Bertha Jorkins who was at Hogwarts the same time as the Marauders & Snape - it was her that got hexed by catching someone out in the greenhouses. The major theory is that it was Snape - one that as far as I am still aware of - JKR hasnt completely denied...and that certainly sounds like something Snape would do... Read the full details here: http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/a-z/j.html (scroll down to jorkins, bertha here) http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/bertha.html "http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards-nosurname.html#Florence "Bertha Jorkins was born c. 1958. She was two years ahead of Sirius, James, and their friends at Hogwarts (GF27). Bertha was a gossip and didn't seem to have a lot of social skills -- once she spotted someone "kissing Florence behind the greenhouses" and didn't have the sense just to ignore it, which resulted in that person casting a hex on her. Harry saw her in Dumbledore's Pensieve at about age sixteen and she appeared as a plump, scowling girl who complained about ill treatment from other students (GF30)." "Florence Probably a student at Hogwarts, a contemporary of Bertha Jorkins, who spied on her and saw her being kissed by some unidentified boy. Bertha complained to Dumbledore, the Headmaster, when she was hexed as a result: "He put a hex on me, Professor Dumbledore, and I was only teasing him, sir, I only said I'd seen him kissing Florence behind the greenhouses last Thursday..." (GF30") |
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Tuesday, December 27th 2005 - 11:55:47 AM |
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Reedpipe |
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Comments: |
Sorry to jump in out of nowhere -- Severina, when (and who) was Snape caught snogging behind the greenhouses? I missed something! |
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Tuesday, December 27th 2005 - 11:27:39 AM |
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Severina |
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Comments: |
Harry Potter – Sense and Sensibility
While I definately agree that Harry is very brave - he is most definately NOT sensible. His is very arrogant and self-centred - which is why Hermione is there as sort of the voice of reason in the Trio - but even she has her moments. The times when Harry most needs to listen and to stop thinking he knows it all or best - he doesnt. Hence him always getting the wrong end of the stick - particularly with Snape and needing to be more open with Dumbledore until Book 6. His destructiveness brought about the death of his beloved Godfather, Sirius Black for example. As Snape rightly said - Harry will be blocked and thrwarted again and again until he learns to keep his mouth shut and his mind closed. Re Snape and Harry - Snape hasnt seen all of Harry's childhood and vice versa. Each is as bad as the other - but Harry thinks that he is above reproach. He often does deserve the detentions he gets and CAPS LOCK Harry in Book 5 made me want to throttle him myself. LOL Harry gets away with murder because of who he is - and it isnt right. Exceptions are made for him, rules are broken for him - he does get by because of who he is - but he would never see that...and neither do some around him when its desperately needed. Re: Snape Lily: I have written about this too LOL. I do think that they were contemporaries in the Slug Club. I think that they did work their way past the incident from Book 5. Slughorn viewed Lily as a brilliant Potions mistress and that is no small thing and very telling given how gifted Snape really is with his favourite subject. Romance – well Snape was caught once having a snog behind the Greenhouses so why would he not have feelings for a girl? He is human after all. He is a lot of things, but he is not Voldemort – who definitely doesn’t have love on the agenda. Snape wants to be respected by the establishment and accepted. We know that he covets the Order of Merlin. I don’t see him wrapped in cotton wool, fluffy and light. But I do think beneath it all the man that is Severus Snape has very real yearnings and regrets. Lily could be one of the biggest regrets of his life and not even for romantic reasons. I think he could have grudgingly come to respect her for her undeniable talent in Potions – for all we know they were in the Slug Club and managed to agree enough to be friendly – if not close friends. Re JKR and Romance – are you kidding me? The whole of the Spinner’s End Chapter in Book 6 reads like fan fiction!! And the whole Lupin/Tonks saga – Tinks grabbing him so melodramatically ! ROFL – The woman is influenced by the fandom and reads her share of fics we know. She’s worked romance in there enough and some of its quite cheesey! LOL. You just never know… You guys rival the MM in making me think now. I will have to do some essays and dedicate them to you! |
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Tuesday, December 27th 2005 - 11:01:08 AM |
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Name: |
Severina |
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Comments: |
News from JKR ladies:
She has started writing and says "Its no time to get maudlin" - deaths are-a-coming! EEK!! http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005600107,00.html |
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Tuesday, December 27th 2005 - 09:40:55 AM |
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Name: |
Severina |
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Comments: |
News from JKR ladies:
She has started writing and says "Its no time to get maudlin" - deaths are-a-coming! EEK!! http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005600107,00.html |
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Tuesday, December 27th 2005 - 09:28:51 AM |
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Name: |
Christina |
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Comments: |
You people are posting like madmen..I mean women! :) I can hardly keep up with all this!
Yes Kathy, very well pointed I think we may have a triangle here. In many editorials that I have read this trio is presented - Harry - Snape - Voldemort; and the idea is strenghtened by their mother`s sacrifice. We have a totall sacrifice and a loving family (the Potters), the total oposite (Merope Gaunt and Riddle) and then we have the middle ground, Snape`s family, where most possible, we have a loving mother and an abussive father. I don`t think JKR introduces Eillen Prince just to confuse us regarding her name and asociation with Snape. Snape IS the midle ground between Harry and Voldy, that`s for sure, he represents those shades of gray we so often find in real life. Harry is very sensible and brave,in opposition to Voldemort who does inded represent the absolute Evil. I think JKR needed indeed something in the middle, a very complex character because too often Evil or Good characters lack that complexity. Harry looks very appealing to a child but a more mature and thoughtful person will surely be much more interested in Snape. The idea that he may have killed his father and his mother took the blame seems even more appealing and possible now. BUT! where could she be now? In prison? St. Mungo? I am still trying to clear out why did Snape exactly chose to become a DE...somehow I think whatever happened with his parents, happened after he finished school. And maybe that is why he joined the DE. And yes, I too believe that DD thought that the Occlumency lessons will help both Harry and Snape. I think that when he reffers to them as being a mistake he partly reffers to the fact that he was mistaken in believing that, seeing all the things Harry endured as a child, Snape could have changed his attitude towards him. But I think there has to be another explanation for his atitude towards Harry, other than what his father and his friends did to him as a child. I would really like to believe in that Snape-Lilly theory but I`m not so convinced JKR would go there. Seems a bit romantic and I think she has done her best until now to keep Snape (along with many other adult characters) at distance from every romantic iinvolvement possible. |
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Tuesday, December 27th 2005 - 09:25:25 AM |
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Severina |
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Comments: |
Christina - I am so right with you there! I am staking a lot of what I am thinking about Snape on AR's willingness and unwillingness to do certain things! We know he was told something to agree to the role - and now apparently he KNOWS the full context of the Snape storyline in the future (ie Book 7). I would love to use some veritaserum on the man LOL. But paying attention to the little details of film Snape gives marvelous details, that for me have born out my suspicions about him. A prime example is that I always suspected he was a working class boy who kind of made good - aside from the spitting on the Quidditch pitch in book 1 - there are his clothes during the quidditch scene in the first film. The fingerless gloves he wears are not usually worn by middle and upper classes as such over here. My ex Father-In-Law was quite insistent on this! And from that moment I knew that despite what a lot of fan fic writers believe - there is no Snape Manor! LOL
For all that I can be annoyed about with how things are changed or left out - considering that things are run through JKR and she says yes or no; its worth considering the films immensely when looking for clues... |
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Tuesday, December 27th 2005 - 06:33:47 AM |
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Name: |
Severina |
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Comments: |
Hi Kathy! *waves*
You comment is up on the LJ along with a response from me - I screen all comments, esp those from anonymous posters with no LJ account, as I have been getting phenomenally harassed as of late. But based on our fab discussion in the chat room last night - I could tell it was you lol. You have me really thinking now - about Snape's mother having possibly sacrificed her life for him. It would certainly add a lot to the dynamics and tensions of his relationship with Harry. And I am right with you on the Occlumencey lessons. We know that Harry comes from an abusive background - and I am sure that DD wanted Snape to see that... fantastic thoughts keep them coming!! Rebecca *waves* - I have thought about that one long and hard - and have addressed it in my essays. I think what she is saying goes back to my essay on the mothers and sons. I think Snape had the love of his mother - whereas Voldemort didnt. We know from the books that Tom Riddle was just - an evil child who did horrible things. Being raised in a Muggle orphanage definately didnt help him - it seemed to spur on his dangerous tendancies because he was unchecked and his power came from being able to do the things he did. In that kind of environment you have to look out for yourself and probably by any means necessary. But having the nature he had - and not having the nuturing...well it was not a good scenario. Snape, on the other hand, had a home with two parents as far as we can tell. And a witch mother and muggle father as did Vodlemort. But I am willing to bet that Snapes mother loved him totally and it was a struggle with his father who probably wasnt happy at seeing his son with these powers - ones uncontrollabe at a young age. The scene from the occlumency lesson in book 5 - little Severus probably did something he couldnt control and incurred the wrath of his father - and mother Eileen could do little about the anger except love her son. That storyline of the Snapes is an interesting one to think about. But when Jo talks about snape's culpability - I think its because he had his mothers love and that somehow that should have made him a better person than he is despite all the bullying he suffered and the problems he has with others. |
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Tuesday, December 27th 2005 - 06:19:26 AM |
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Name: |
kathy |
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Comments: |
Sev--tried to post on your site but it wouldn't let me--anyway All I had to say was to reiterate the Lly-Harry. Eileen -snape, Merope-Voldy and that I believe Eileen loved Snape and sacrificed her life for him as well. Merope was the only one who didn't.
I was also thinkin that DD purpose for Snape giving Harry Occulumency lessons may have been as much for Snape as for harry--to see the sorrow in his heart at the loss of his parents, perhaps to soften snape a bit. Just a thought oh well |
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Tuesday, December 27th 2005 - 04:16:15 AM |
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Name: |
Rebecca |
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Location: |
Godiva chocolate land |
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Comments: |
Severina's quote of JKR:
"Jo has said that Snape was far more culpable for his actions because he was loved..." I had forgotten she said this, and remember then, and now, again, thinking what exactly she is alluding to here? To me, sounds like she is again making "her" case for Snape being a baddy...what is everyone else's take on this comment? Oh yeah, I've decided to sticky-note all the lines/parts of HBP that give me a jolt, or sound like clues, etc. this time so I don't completely forget about them 5 pages later, lol. Even reading it this third time through, I'm picking up things I didn't from the other reads. Love hearing all the comments/ideas here! |
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Monday, December 26th 2005 - 06:12:30 PM |
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Name: |
Severina |
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Location: |
Dark Matter on EZBoard |
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Homepage URL: |
http://www.livejournal.com/~nativemoon |
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Comments: |
Kathy - one of my recent essays was about the mother-son relationships in HP....
http://www.livejournal.com/~nativemoon/17309.html?nc=6 As I said - the Magical Menagerie Forum on EZBoard is a great place. It is more evident when you read many of the wonderful posts from members offering analysis and a great deal of insight regarding the world of Harry Potter (and other subjects but mainly the MM is about all things HP). One recent thread was started by a new member, orionsixwings, and is called "Lessons Worth Learning". It is a wonderful essay on what the situation concerning Merope Gaunt can teach us all. Please read it here: http://p102.ezboard.com/fmagicalmenageriefrm34.showMessage?topicID=90.topic I was struck this essay tremendously: "Unloved, unappreciated, and uncared for, Merope suddenly found herself wanting the affection of a man who was her complete and exact opposite. He was beautiful to behold, popular, well-loved by many, and he was a Muggle. Merope had stumbled upon 'holy ground' - something that she was not allowed to touch. In her desperation, she used the only thing she has going for her - MAGIC. Luring him to love her, bearing his son, only to awaken one morning to the tragic realization that to him - no matter what she did - she was a monster. Broken, forgotten, and alone, Merope died giving birth to what could have been the answer to her prayers - someone who would have loved her back with no question. Someone who could have been her saving grace. Merope was a lesson worth learning. Something that many among us suffer in silence - wanting to be loved by someone who can't, won't, or doesn't love us back. Giving up on those who could have, should have, would have given us that love we sought for." This was my response: I do think that not only could her son have been the saving grace of Merope; Merope also could have been the saving grace of her son, Tom Riddle. Jo has said that Snape was far more culpable for his actions because he was loved. And when I read that I immediately thought that unlike Tom Riddle or even Harry Potter, Snape knew the love his mother (an assumption - but I am going with instinct). Now a mother's love did save Harry and we have come to understand just how powerful a force that is. But Harry Potter is no Tom Riddle - even with his abusive upbringing. And he has the love and support of true friends who have come to be his family (Ron and his family, Hermione) and the two men who could be father figures (Dumbledore and Lupin). Harry is actually quite incredible to see - because he has overcome so much despite what was lacking in his life. We now know that Tom Riddle as a child was very desensitised. Part of this may have been through birth - but by and large it was due to his environment and what it was lacking. He was brought up in an orphanage and left to his own devices; with the love of his mother and her guiding hand, Tom Riddle might have never grown to become Lord Voldemort. The old nature versus nurture argument I suppose. The lessons of Merope and her child are many. But being Native American, and having 'magical' practice an integral part of my culture - I think Jo was also teaching a very important 'magickal' lesson: As wiccans and witches tend to say 'So long as it harm none...' Merope was so desperate to have the love of a man who just did not love her that she used magic to break his natural will and force something that was not there. And she did not want to face up to the fact that the love she had was really an illusion. When finally she faced it and did the honourable thing, she lwas faced with a man who despised her for what she was but especially what she had to have done in order to have captured his affections. There is a price to pay for everything and in Merope's case the price and legacy for her child was especially high. And I also wonder if Eileen Prince is another Merope, not so downtrodden, but perhaps giving herself to someone who could never love her the way she deserved to be and who also took issue with her for what she was and then in turn transferred that to his son. We may never know, but the repercussions cannot be denied in any case. Merope and Eileen Snape and Voldemort Harry and then Harry, Snape and Voldemort Very interesting lessons indeed... |
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Monday, December 26th 2005 - 04:03:46 PM |
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Name: |
kathy |
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Comments: |
I wonder if there have been any editorials on the various mother-son relationships in the books? Some interseting parallels |
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Monday, December 26th 2005 - 02:02:04 PM |
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Name: |
Christina |
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The only time I thought JKR got slightely out of hand (ok maybe that`s not exactly the phrase that describes my feelings the best but still) was in PoA, in the Shrieking Shack, when he (Snape, who else :) ) just lost it! All that rage and Harry`s reaction - that seemed rather weird, I`m sure it has it`s purpouse but still it didn`t felt right. I can`t see how Snape could have actually thought Harry was being Confunded or whatever it was his explanation later for Harry`s behaviour. He actually stood up for him which was pretty shocking considering everything. And Harry called him pathetic and all not to mention hit him with the Expelliarmus spell. And then there was that totally awkward scene in the movie where he defends the trio from Lupin! I actually had to pinch myself in order to make sure I wasn`t dreaming!Ok that might be one of those things JKR mentioned Cuaron included in the film and that these litle details foreseen the 6th and 7th book but STILL! How did Cuaron came up with that?! Beacuse that scene HAS no OTHER purpouse that to show Snape actually cares for their safety! There could be no other meaning! it`s not really that big to say it had a huge impact, it just seems as a way to let the fans know that "hey! LOOK! there is more to him that meets the eye". Actually I`m begining to wonder if Steven Kloves made the decision to include that in the scrip or was it Cuaron`s idea like JKR hinted or has it been done with AR participation. Because that scene could not have arrived out of the bloom, especially as it`s almost the opposite of the situation in the books where Snape is unconscions the whole time. And I`m simply dying to know those things Alan refused to do because he thought his character wouldn`t react that way!!!!! |
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Monday, December 26th 2005 - 10:58:17 AM |
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Name: |
Rebecca |
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Location: |
Florida |
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Oh, Kathy, what a good thought. I also just read on JKR's site, (she was discussing Harry's early years at the Dursleys), where when he was VERY ANGRY he suffered or made happen "uncontrolled" magical acts, very powerful things. HHmmmm, I see a connection here.
I love the idea of the emotions affecting magical ability. It's just so cool. No wonder Snape's so good--he's got all those *carefully controlled* powerful emotions of his in check, all at the tip of his wand, so to speak. OOohhh. |
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Sunday, December 25th 2005 - 09:36:55 PM |
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Name: |
kathy |
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Comments: |
It would also makes sense in showing us Merope, a witch that was so downtrodden she lost her powers and Tonks changing her Patronus due to her sadness--Showing us how emotions are inherent in magical abilities. I also was wondering if whipping up Harry's anger just might help him with more powerful magic than saddness would --maybe that is what Snape has discovered. |
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Sunday, December 25th 2005 - 02:20:13 PM |
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Name: |
Rebecca |
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Location: |
sunny, warm Florida! |
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Comments: |
Yes, *worried* here too!
I agree with those points,too, re; Snape's mother losing her powers due to being under Tobias' thumb. If it's not the "truth", it certainly should be. Explains alot. I, too, cannot WAIT for these juicy new scenes for AR to portray in the upcoming movies. Oh, yeah, and JKR just updated her site, saying she has been getting the Book 7 "outline" complete these last few weeks, and is now going to sit down and do the writing part. (Aarrrggh, please write fast, please, please) Also just received my very own HBP copy from "Santa" this a.m., have read my Mom's copy twice, but am diving in for a third! (HP makes me so happy) I'll see if I dig up any new tidbits the third time through... |
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Sunday, December 25th 2005 - 12:19:49 PM |
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Christina |
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Comments: |
yes, Kathy the thought crossed my mind. It would seem unlikely that JKR mentioned his parents in the Pensive and then just dropp the whole thing! it must serve a purpouse later on or so I think. How come he knew all those curses and jinxes before attending school? Why that gloomy apppearence? And not "Lupin-gloomy" this was much worse! I think that it`s very posible (I read this in an editorial on mugglenet) that Eileen, his mother, could have lost her magical abillities when facing such a dreadful husband so she could not protect her son. And there`s another thing that Snape seems to have this disgust for muggles which could have only started from his childhood, facing his abussive father.I think Snape is far from being Good but still not completly Evil either so I think something will happen to put him in one of this categories permanently. That`s why I vote for the heroic ending. (wouldn`t AR perform that SPLENDID?) But from JKR interviews....it always seem she will go for a different approach! She enjoys writing him that`s for sure but maybe she`s just toying with us! *worried* |
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Sunday, December 25th 2005 - 03:01:15 AM |
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Name: |
kathy |
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Comments: |
Rebecca, thanks for the link
I have been re-reading a link that Christina clued us into about Snape. I wonder if Snape in his childish impetuosity or inability to control his magic as a child killed his abusive father and his mother took the blame for it. A somewhat parallel to Harry's mother sacrificing herself for Harry. Snape operates on such a high anger level, and Harry is operating on anger as well. Feel anger rather than pain?? Just a thought |
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Sunday, December 25th 2005 - 02:15:13 AM |
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Name: |
Rebecca |
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Location: |
Florida |
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Comments: |
This is a new editorial on Mugglenet, touches on some of the points we've been discussing. Thought it was interesting. Plus, alot is about Snape. Yay!
http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-silvrcherubim01.shtml |
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Saturday, December 24th 2005 - 12:53:38 PM |
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Name: |
Katje |
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Location: |
home |
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Hi,
As for RAB, I love to think there are three people, but in the dutch translation Black is called 'Zwarts' (Witch also means black) And the initials are there - RAZ. The norwegion version is also consistend with Black... So unless Regules Black is among those three... |
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Friday, December 23rd 2005 - 05:16:35 PM |
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Name: |
Moro |
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Location: |
Pittsburgh |
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Comments: |
I had that little "ding ding ding!" going off in my head after chapter 2 of HPB too! (And I was already into Snape then!) I agree with you all that being locked into Harry's perspective has become rather problematic; generally, if you're going to follow one character from such an intimate point of view, you ought to stick with that character, for consistency's sake if nothing else. I think JKR's felt that, though, considering how she's started writing chapters from different perspectives. I think I said on the other board a while ago that I think she made some really good decisions in her handling of HPB chapter 2-- I hope she runs with it in the next book, even to the extent of doing that with some of the stronger minor characters. It looks like she's splitting up the "trio" in this next one-- Harry's going after the horcruxes, and isn't likely, I think, allow his friends to follow him into danger-- so she's in a good position to tell the story from different perspectives. And many of the characters besides Snape have taken on lives of their own; they can't really be contained effectively by Harry's perspective any more. It'll be interesting to see what she does.
I don't think she'll disapoint us with Snape, though. In interviews she keeps insisting that Snape's not a nice guy and we should feel no pity for him-- but she's sure given him a lot of sympathetic qualities for someone who's supposedly a pitiless b*st*rd. I just can't see that she'd string her readers along this far just to yank the carpet out from under them-- "Ha ha, you thought he was good but he's BAD after all, nyah nyah!" I'm not sure he'll come out of this smelling all rosy, but I think the final outcome will be more complex than simply "good" or "evil." She does tend too much toward narrative titillation, but in terms of the complexity of her characters, and the moral issues they struggle with, she really doesn't take the easy road. |
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Friday, December 23rd 2005 - 08:52:08 AM |
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Name: |
Christina |
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Comments: |
Yes, that`s exactly the thing, that she tells everything through Harry`s perspective. And we always had very little on Snape`s actions through the book, but the ending usually filled out some blank spaces. I didn`t get that feeling with HBP and that`s why I think that, while reading the last one we`ll all be something like "Oh my God!.... That can`t happen! ....Oh I knew I had that right!.... Ooooohh! so THAT`s why he/she do that! " But I have to give her this! And there will be more of DD and SS`s families in the last one, she said it, well hinted at it. I think we all get the feeling, at least in re: SS that the scene in the pensiveand the occlumency lessons in which we had those flashbacks of his childhood are very important to the plot. |
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Friday, December 23rd 2005 - 03:40:53 AM |
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Name: |
kathy |
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Comments: |
Rebecca, if Snape turns out to be flat-bad in the next book there will be a long line of unhappy people. I don't know if it was here or another board I was reading but someone said that RAB could possibly be three people--I don't know if anyone had a chance to look at the link I posted earlier about the legend of the lake. Somehow rings bells for me. RAB might perhaps be too easy to think of as Regulus Black.
Part of the narrative problem for me probably is the fact that since she writes through Harry's eyes and perception it is hard to get other info.--Actually it seem when she is interviewed she answers through Harry's perceptions as well. I'll bet there are clues all through the 6 books--would be nice to know more about DD and SS's families |
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Friday, December 23rd 2005 - 01:30:01 AM |
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Name: |
Rebecca |
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Location: |
waiting for dinner to cook |
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Comments: |
ohh good. So now I can legitimately say my Snape obsession is really ALL HER FAULT!
Thank you for putting into words the "why" I feel how I do of what has happened with Snape in the storyline, at JKR's hand. When I started reading the books, I read them as any other. But with HBP, after chapter 2, a huge "ding" went off in my head, like the "Snape" switch in my brain was flipped...and I've reread all the books, rewatched all the movies, etc. since then, and am obsessed. She has to know what she's created--( LOL...just like Jessica Rabbit,"I'm not BAD, I'm just drawn that way!"), but like I've said elsewhere, if for some ungodly reason no one suspects, she writes him as flat/bad in the last book, I will be sorely pissed. |
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Thursday, December 22nd 2005 - 05:48:15 PM |
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Name: |
Moro |
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Location: |
Pittsburgh |
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Comments: |
Sorry, Rebecca! There I've gone and spoilt it for everyone again. :D I sometimes wonder whether I am giving the subject far more analysis than it deserves-- it is supposed to be, as I said, HARRY's story. But then again, so do a lot of people and I think that has more to do with the fact that she's created not just a very compelling character, but a heavily significant one. The things she does with him on the page really do drop on the reader like boulders-- you can't ignore him, regardless of whether you're infatuated with Snape, Alan Rickman, or both. And because she gives him as much significance as she does, it's reasonable for a reader to look closely at what she's trying to do with him and why. |
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Thursday, December 22nd 2005 - 04:42:34 PM |
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Name: |
Rebecca |
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Location: |
gift wrapping hell |
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Comments: |
Moro quote:
"I get the impression that Snape's come to carry a lot more narrative weight than she originally intended him to-- it's supposed to be Harry's story after all, and we're locked into Harry's perspective from the outset. Snape is one of those characters who takes on a life of his own, though, and forces a writer to continually reconsider where the story's heading" THAT hits the nail on the head. I'm thinking she of course realizes this now, and will treat us big time in book 7. For me, only just now, in HBP, has the "tittilation" of us re: Snape become annoying. (Now that you've pointed it out, lol)...or maybe, us rabid Snape fans are just feeling the lack of info so far WAY more so than just a regular reader who enjoys the books on a certain level, and doesn't pick them apart? Hmmmm...maybe she's going for the middle ground, and can only please so many types of readers at a time...but I'm not a "writer", so these are just speculations on my part. |
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Thursday, December 22nd 2005 - 03:42:50 PM |
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Name: |
Moro |
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Location: |
Pittsburgh |
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I'm with you on that, kathy-- Snape marching to his own drummer, and being more culpable than we'd like to think. I think Snape's got a very interesting internal struggle going on which JKR's more than hinted at in interviews; I just wish she'd give it some more room in the actual *books*. From an author's perspective, I think she's in a difficult position with Snape. I get the impression that Snape's come to carry a lot more narrative weight than she originally intended him to-- it's supposed to be Harry's story after all, and we're locked into Harry's perspective from the outset. Snape is one of those characters who takes on a life of his own, though, and forces a writer to continually reconsider where the story's heading. To her credit, I think JKR has done a nice job of letting him grow in an interesting way. But I think maybe she reigns him in a little too much-- thus we get these little scraps of a person, rather than a wholly developed, satisfying character.
I'm not sure, though, that she uses the "titillating tidbit" approach because it's supposed to be "children's literature." For one thing, I'm not sure it *is* just a kids' book-- while it's true that kids find the subject matter appealing, her approach (epic lengths, sophisticated language, exploration of complex moral issues, etc.) doesn't suggest to me that she's speaking directly to children. But more importantly, I don't believe that she feels that children should be spoken down to, or that a novel should be any "easier" for them to grasp than it might be for an adult. I think she's just trying to arrive at some kind of truth about life and human nature-- which is what any good writer should try to do, and what I appreciate most about her work. I think, unfortunately, it's more a case that she's picked up a few bad writing habits, and her editors aren't calling her on them. That doesn't make them bad books, or JKR a bad writer-- I just think that she just ends up missing a lot of narrative opportunities that way, oppportunities which would enrich and complicate the story to a more satisfying degree. |
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Thursday, December 22nd 2005 - 03:09:14 PM |
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Name: |
kathy |
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Comments: |
Hi--Moro et al,
I agree with JKR's way too many titilating tidbits with no resolution. I however wonder if this is because it is primarily a children's book. Although the moral overtones are so complex that it can only be appreciated by adults. I have been reading other boards about Harry Potter and I think i am leaning toward Snape as innocent but marching to his own drummer. I wonder if DD past is in anyway connected to SS or his family I'm beginning to think Snape is not truly evil but more culpable that we'd like to think. I also don't think Sirius is as good as we'd like to think. Perhaps Regulus was a better wizard than Sirius, and has been hiding all this time--perhaps to take Sirius place in Harry's life I think clues are spread out over all the books. |
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Thursday, December 22nd 2005 - 01:38:32 PM |
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Name: |
Moro |
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Location: |
Pittsburgh |
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Comments: |
You know, Rebecca (she said, popping up out of nowhere, she never usually turns up on the HP spoilers page, hi, y'all! :) ), I seem to remember JKR saying something on her website to the effect that if the site hasn't been updated recently, it's good news-- it means she's writing. Though I also seem to remember her saying that she wanted to give her new baby a full year of serious mommy-time before she started the last book. So my guess is she's either mommying, or writing. In other words, I'm not saying anything really useful, here. But I feel good about whatever she's up to! :)
I think I'm also in the Dumbledore-is-Dead-as-a-Doornail camp, though the little kid part of me is still hopeful that he'll pull at least one Obi Wan Kenobi-type appearance. :) This is one of those times I wish JKR had developed certain scenes a little more fully-- I'm thinking specifically of that conversation between Dumbledore and Snape which Hagrid overhears. It's one of those off-camera scenes where there's something hugely important, and potentially interesting, happening in terms of Snape and DD's relationship; instead of really taking advantage of the scene and exploring what it has to offer, though, she uses it instead to bait and possibly mislead the reader: Uh oh! What could it all MEAN? Is Snape evil? Or isn't he? Ooh, what's he going to do NOW? She dangles this big thing in front of the reader long enough for us to understand that it's REALLY IMPORTANT, then whips it away again without really revealing anything-- the result being that readers gget nothing out of the information, apart from titillation. The tendency JKR has toward that kind of narrative trickery annoys me, because it actually prevents us from understanding what she's trying to illustrate about human nature and human relationships with those characters. And what she's trying to illustrate is really rather complex and fascinating; I wish she'd just paint the picture for us, rather than going the mystery-story route with it-- that is, dropping heavily-significant-yet-impenetrable crumbs for the reader along the way, and then wolloping us over the head with their "meaning" right at the end. I was taught, at least, that when you withhold so much from your readers that you find yourself having to answer all their questions off the page in Q&A sessions, you haven't really done your job the way you should. That isn't to say that there isn't much to admire about JKR's work. But I do think that sometimes she takes the easy way out as a storyteller-- and though it makes for a roller-coaster-like read, it's not necessarily the best route to take, considering the complexity and poignancy at the story's heart. |
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Thursday, December 22nd 2005 - 11:26:12 AM |
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Name: |
Alfan |
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Location: |
Canada |
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Comments: |
I too believe that Dumbledore is 100% dead and that it was 100% planned by Snape and Dumbledore. Dumbledore said in book 5 when he dueled with Voldemort that "there are worse things than death" and " death is the next great adventure" so i believe he is dead and i believe he will be very instrumental to Harry in the seventh book and i also think he will claim Snapes innocence and allegence. ( although it might be to late to save him)
Totally off topic, if anyone gets the chance to go and see Goblet again, watch Karakoff just before the third task is about to start, when Harry is being announced and before DD calls them tegether. What is he doing to Victor? It looks like he is petting or picking somthing out of Victor's hair,,,,,looks goofy. |
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Thursday, December 22nd 2005 - 09:30:08 AM |
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Name: |
Rebecca |
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Location: |
Florida |
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Comments: |
Hey guys,
Regarding Regulus Black, recently (on SWARF, and somewhere else before that, too) was info posted that in translation to one of the other languages for the books,(sorry, can't remember which), Regulus Black was now Regulus Zwartz, lol, or something that started with a Z. And in the note, the R.A.B. was now R.A.Z. I think that seals the deal (for me anyway) that R.A.B. is definitely Regulus Black. On a weird note, R.A.B. are also my initials (married), and R.A.Z. were also my initials (when I was single). Unfortunately, I have no idea where any horcruxes are. :( As for Snape, there are some good editorials over on Mugglenet regarding his probable "goodness"...Aahh, Snape. Don't get me started. I'm in love. Lust. Whatever. I for one, think we all need to filch JKR's phone number from somewhere, and take turns badgering her to make sure she is writing the next book. (" Hi Jo, what's that? You're doing the laundry? No,no, no, get back to your desk NOW! What about the kids, you say? Kids, shmids, get a sitter for the next 6 months, they'll be FINE! Write! Write! Write!" *cracking of whip*) Think that'll work? hehe. |
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Thursday, December 22nd 2005 - 08:34:53 AM |
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Name: |
Christina |
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Comments: |
Well about DD being actually dead,I believe it to be true because of the painting in his office that appeared that night. I don`t think JKR would go for the Gandalf approach! (of him returning in the second part) And as for Regulus, I am in the dark. There could be many options even besides Regulus Black. She (JKR) only said it`s a fine guess but then again she also said things about Snape that could convince anyone that he is in fact "evil". So I don`t think I`ll go with Regulus as a guess. I preffer not to dwell on it for too long.I think we will be surprised! Those initials can come from many things. I also read somewhere the theory that it could also be Andromeda Black, Tonks`s mother. It seemed plausible but I can`t remember the arguments. The thing is R.A.B used the expression "the dark lord" which DE use quite frequently. But we`re running around in circles here with that one. But yes, I also thing that a horcrux is to be found in No.12 Grimauld Place. I am very curious about Hogwarts in the final book and if it will be reopened. I am also very curious about that huge blond DE that was mentioned frequently in the end of HBP... |
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Thursday, December 22nd 2005 - 02:37:43 AM |
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Name: |
kathy |
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Comments: |
Have been thinking about Snape and the course of events in the HBP. Is it significant that Regulus Black and Snape both turned from Voldemort at the same time? I also wonder if Reg. Black could still be alive--remember what Snape says in the first book--I can teach you to put a stopper in death??!! Or if DD is actually dead and Snape was just able to delay the death until DD completed his mission.
I am in the DD is actually dead camp. I'll bet he's left some memories behind tho--- I was also thinking that one of the horcuxes was the cupboard that DD set on fire the first time he met Tom Riddle, and the locket that can't be opened at the Black house |
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Thursday, December 22nd 2005 - 12:54:08 AM |
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Name: |
AFNH |
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Comments: |
Hasn't the movie stirred things up again?!!! I finished the HBP again last weekend, and was once more struck by the thought that Snape is a more powerful wizard than we realise, I think in some ways he could be more powerful than Voldemort (ie Occlumency, healing). Possibly, too, he didn't fully hear the whole prophecy, as he would have been in the process of being discovered before the end of the prophecy was known. I also think he could have admired Lily from afar, but would have died before he would have let that become public knowledge.
I also have the strong feeling that Snape won't survive Book 7, and I'll be gutted by that. I still think that JKR gave some info to AR which helped him make his decision to play Snape, we all know he likes shades of grey, not total black and white characters. |
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Friday, December 2nd 2005 - 07:32:21 PM |
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Name: |
Christina |
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Comments: |
Thank you for reminding me the "huge about Lily Potter" thing, Reedpipe! I`ve completely forgotten about that!
Well didn`t DD or someone else said something about the fact that Snape had some sort of life-debt to James Potter that, with his passing, transfered to Harry? That that was the reason Snape saved his life? But remember! Snape saved Harry`s life more than once. The life-debt "expired" so why continue doing it? He saved Harry`s life even in the latest book, so I`m sure it has to be more to it than that. But if you consider this theory to be true, it couldn`t have been possible for Snape to be present the night Harry`s parents died because this would imply that he should have tried to save James, given the life-debt thingy. Oh JKR toys with my mind! And the question I can`t answer (among others but this really gets on my nerves) is how did Snape managed to lie to Voldemort all this time. Voldy being a much more skilled Legillimens, I`m sure. So maybe he didn`t lie?.....Maybe the one who has been lying to was DD all along.....this is a really sad perspective... |
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Thursday, December 1st 2005 - 04:13:40 PM |
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Name: |
Reedpipe |
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Location: |
CT |
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Comments: |
I agree that the handwriting could have been Eileen Prince Snape's, but could there have been some of Lily's in it as well? I can't remember why I thought this now, as I too only read the book once, but I remember getting the distinct impression that Lily and Severus did work together in potions. Something Slughorn said, maybe? Or maybe just the fact that both Severus and Lily were praised by Slughorn as having excelled in his subject.
JKR said a while back that there was still something HUGE about Lily that's yet to be revealed, and that her wand (whatever the core was) was good for charms. Maybe it wasn't that Severus loved her, or vice-versa, but that she put a charm on Severus that somehow bound him to protect Harry? |
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Thursday, December 1st 2005 - 01:56:03 PM |
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Name: |
Christina |
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Comments: |
Oh,Sabine, you`ve just popped my balloon! :) yes, you are right, I forgot the book belonged to Snape`s mother. But I think it could still be possible that Snape and Lily may have worked together. But I think it`s highly unlikely that Lily could have loved Snape. Viceversa, maybe. But her reaction in the fifth book when Snape insulted her (now why would he do that??? Because he was an excesively proud boy?) is not telling us very much. She merely blinked and turned her back to both Snape and James, if I remeber correctly.
But I`ve worked my brain to the point of boiling it and still couldn`t come up with anything. You can`t actually correlate Snape with anyone else (of the opposite sex) other than his mother and Lily. There was a theory about Narcissa in an editorial but somehow I think that would be too much of a "Young and the restless" story.:) |
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Thursday, December 1st 2005 - 11:16:22 AM |
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