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March 2006

 

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Name:

 Jan

Location:

 Hope this all shows up!

Comments:

 Elisa & Noddi et al (Italiano!) - I looked it up! Here's where Dumbledore explains to Harry what it was:

Thursday, March 30th 2006 - 04:58:59 PM

Name:

 Jan

Location:

 One stinkin' sentence at a time!

Comments:

 "Voldemort tried to kill you when you were a child because of a prophecy made shortly before your birth.

Thursday, March 30th 2006 - 04:56:47 PM

Name:

 Jan

Location:

 Aaarrrrrgh!

Comments:

 He knew the prophecy had been made, though he did not know its full contents.

Thursday, March 30th 2006 - 04:55:36 PM

Name:

 Jan

Location:

 Here we go again!

Comments:

 . . .He set out to kill you when you were still a baby, believing he was fulfilling the terms of the prophecy. . .

Thursday, March 30th 2006 - 04:54:12 PM

Name:

 Jan

E-mail address:

 NW PA USA

Comments:

 . . . He discovered, to his cost, that he was mistaken, when the curse intended to kill you backfired. And so, since his return to his body, and particularly since your extraordinary escape from him last year, he has been determined to hear that prophecy in its entirety. THIS IS THE WEAPON HE HAS BEEN SEEKING SO ASSIDUOUSLY SINCE HIS RETURN: THE KNOWLEDGE OF HOW TO DESTROY YOU."

Thursday, March 30th 2006 - 04:52:30 PM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 This is just a test to see if I can post here without problems...

*beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep*

In case this message works fine, Noddi me too get confused with the movies and the books. First I saw the second movie before reading any HP books. There I recognized AR as Snape and got interested in the whole thing. Luckily, because that did spare me from years of waiting and guessing and everything. I read books one to five in a couple of weeks.

Thursday, March 30th 2006 - 09:51:31 AM

Name:

 Noddi

Comments:

 Uhmmm... well. It's been a while since I've read the books , so don't hang me up on this. But wasn't it so that they only thought he was trying to get a weapon and it turned out he was after the prophecy? Huh, can't remember.

And it IS easy to confuse books and films, especially starting with POA, because that was the first movie (in my opinion) that was waaaay different from the book. Maybe that was because that's the first movie of which I'd read the book first. Who knows...

Thursday, March 30th 2006 - 07:04:44 AM

Name:

 Elisa

Comments:

 Hi, I always mistake books and films....book 4 with book 5...then there are the differences between Italian and English version...it's a mess. Do you know, in HPOotP the famous locket has been translated as "padlock"? So, no one had thought it could be the same of the Cavern!!
Well, about HPOotP, when Harry is talking with Sirius and Lupin about Order and You-Know-Who, Sirius says that Voldemort can get followers by stealth - Like a weapon, he didn't have last time, even worse than Avada Kedavra - what does it mean?

Wednesday, March 29th 2006 - 12:43:04 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Noddi - it's very easy to get the movie versions mixed up with the book versions - I do it all the time and that's why I thought I'd better look it up again. I had completely forgotten how different it was from the movie, as well as about Harry giving Snape that clue in OotP.

In the PoA book, one thing that is also mentioned is how James had saved Snape's life when Sirius tried to trick him into going to the Shrieking Shack while Lupin was transformed into a werewolf (back in their school days). I don't think Snape is afraid of Lupin in human form at all - Lupin's the one of the group who didn't pick on Snape and is a little ashamed of not stopping Sirius & James - although Snape knows how dangerous Lupin is when transformed.

But, in the book, Lupin takes the map, which was lying on Snape's desk, and left with Harry & Ron. But Lupin never admits to Harry that he is 'Moony', though he does later.

It will certainly be fun to have everything revealed in book 7. But I'm afraid we'll always get the movie and book versions confused!

Wednesday, March 29th 2006 - 10:07:59 AM

Name:

 Noddi

Comments:

 Ah... okay. See, that's why I should read the books again. I can't tell books from movie anymore :P. But in the book, Lupin eventually gets the map? Cause if that would happen, still doesn't make sense to me that Snape would give the map away to him. My friend has the theory that Snape's been somewhat fearful against Lupin ever since the tree incident.. I dunno... could be. Apparently we'll learn more of that incident in book 7. Can't wait!!!
Oh and uhm... thanks Jan, for looking it up for me ;)

Wednesday, March 29th 2006 - 05:37:13 AM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 You're right about Snape recognising 'Padfoot' in Umbridge's office - I'd forgotten about that. The map was first shown in PoA. I looked it up and in the book it is quite different from the movie. Snape does see the message as it appears, Harry is not reading it to him, and Snape seems to know the names because he calls Lupin into his office and says he thinks Harry got it directly from the manufacturers (apparently knowing that was Lupin & pals). But Lupin doesn't in any way admit to knowing what he's talking about (why?) and says it must be from Zonko's, which Ron confirms when he comes in.

So I can only assume that in the movie they wanted AR to say the line, 'Why, you insolent little . . .' since it doesn't fit at all in the book version. One of the many changes in Snape that have been made in the movies which we will probably not know the reason for until the last one (maybe!).

Tuesday, March 28th 2006 - 06:16:28 PM

Name:

 Noddi

Comments:

 Well Jan, that somewhat doesn't go, because Snape DID recognize the nickname Padfoot when Harry was 'captured' by Omber and he had to let Snape know about Sirius. So Snape DOES know the nicknames. And he also knows they're on the map, since Harry reads them out loud. So... why think Harry is being insolent? Still confused there I'm afraid.

Tuesday, March 28th 2006 - 01:11:17 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Noddi - I would say that Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot, & Prongs would not have used those names on the map if they hadn't kept them as private nicknames just among themselves. Therefore, Snape may never have known them. Also, I'm not sure if Snape can see the map from his perspective as Harry reads it - we can't when we see from beside Alan's - er *cough* - Snape's left ear *sigh*. If he can't see, he might have thought Harry was making it up just to be insolent.

As for that article, I have thought myself that Snape might, in the end, help Harry to kill Voldemort - but for his own personal reasons. Harry, in my opinion, MUST be the ultimate hero and must be the one who actually kills Voldemort - because it's a children's book and children relate to Harry. They are learning how to be the hero in their own lives through these books. But Snape will play a major role and that could be it.

I've started reading "Mapping the World of Harry Potter" and the first chapter, "HP and the Young Man's Mistake" says most of what I've thought about concerning Harry himself and some of the adults around him.

Then there's "Rickman's feline movements and mellifluous voice give the Potions Master a sensuality absent from the page" in the chapter "To Sir, With Love". I may have to buy this book!

Monday, March 27th 2006 - 02:47:55 PM

Name:

 noddi

Comments:

 well... I find that HARD to believe. In my mind I'm most definately keeping the option Snape's eventually a good guy open, but not in this way.

Re: the "don't lie to me" thingy. My friend and I have wondered about that a lot of times. There simply isn't a reason why Snape should not know it wasn't Harry. All I can think of is that he just enjoys bullying/scaring Harry with the Veritaserum.

And then there's a question I had. In POA, when Snape catches Harry with the Marauders Map, why does he believe Harry makes the insult? Surely he must have recognized the Marauders names?

Monday, March 27th 2006 - 02:00:48 PM

Name:

 Vicki

Location:

 Los Angeles

Comments:

 I was doing a google search on "Severus Snape" and came across this interesting article: http://www.davekopel.com/Misc/Mags/Severus-Snape-The-Unlikely-Hero-of-Harry-Potter-book-7.htm

I'm not sure I agree with everything he has to say, but he does have some interesting points to make. I completely forgot about the scene in Dumbledore's office when Riddle came to apply for the DADA job. Do you think he really cast a secret spell? I don't remember the part about four others accompanying him to Hogwarts. Darn, I guess I'll just have to read the book again.

Monday, March 27th 2006 - 02:37:44 AM

Name:

 Elisa

Comments:

 Well...If Isaac needs a place to stay, more comfortable than a prison...I'm here!!!

Sunday, March 26th 2006 - 02:59:22 PM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 I read this on TLC about Jason Isaacs, it's very funny!

He says:

"for book six I'm definitely not working because I'm in prison all the way through! So I'm hoping for a big prison breakout in book seven."

LOL! Must have been a shock for him to read the book and didn't find his "Lucius" anywhere but only briefs references.

...

"I've got my fingers crossed for anyone who's a fan of mine to please write and get him out of prison for book seven. Because right now, I don't know whether I'm going to be in the next film, and I do so love the role."

Oh come on, of course "Lucius" has to be on the last book and movie. Take it easy, man! Be patient, you'll be there for sure! LOL!

Sunday, March 26th 2006 - 09:07:21 AM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 Yeah, let's hope JKR use the so-called magical numerology and publish the book on July 7, 2007 = the seventh day of the seventh month on year seven of the two-thousand ones.

That makes one year and four months (approx.) ahead. *deep sigh*

Sunday, March 26th 2006 - 08:39:14 AM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Nahima - 'summarized' is exactly right. But Snape's "Don't lie to me" was in the book, too. BUT - I think you're right about one thing . . . most of what we theorize here will probably be way off! I wish we didn't have to wait another year or more, too. The time will fly by except when I'm thinking about it and then it c.r.a.w.l.s. . .

Saturday, March 25th 2006 - 05:17:08 PM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 Hello!

I think the movies tell a somewhat "revised" story, maybe "summarized" is a best description (if this verb exists, I mean "shorter" than in the books). I suppose the filmmakers have to make something that can be enjoyed without the need of knowing or viewing any prior information. This way they do not lose public = money.

Anyway, in the books we may assume that Snape has been able to "read" Harry's mind since the first year. Even after Harry confirmed Snape's ability, he can't prevent it from happening because Harry did not learn the occlumency thingy.
The only tool he has been able to use is to avoid eye contact, but obviously this sounds very weak to fool a wizard like Snape.

I've been taking a break of the whole HP theories because I suspect, well suspect isn't the word, I am SURE JK Rowling will manage to surprise us once again. So, when I read something I like I can't avoid to think "No, if this is here probably it won't happen in the last book."

Can't hardly wait for the blasted book... *sigh*

Saturday, March 25th 2006 - 01:08:58 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Something we've discussed in the past is Snape's ability to 'read' Harry's thoughts with Legilimancy. In GoF, even with the revised plot, both in the film and the book Snape says to Harry 'Don't...lie...to me!' about stealing the ingredients for Polyjuice Potion. Of course, at that point in the story we hadn't yet heard of Legilimancy or Occlumancy, I don't think, and it may have been meant as an introduction to Veritaserum, but if Snape could know Harry's thoughts he would surely have known he didn't steal those things.

I love the way He Who Must be Adored delivers that line, though!

Saturday, March 25th 2006 - 09:04:05 AM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 I agree with Nahima about Sirius' death. Harry must go on alone in order to reach his full potential. His relationship with his friends is a partnership, but with adults he has tended to lean on them - normal and necessary as a child, but to fully grow up, he must learn to do it on his own.

Saturday, March 18th 2006 - 12:51:33 PM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 How curious Jan, I suppose Voldemort's "Crucio-out-loud" might have been for dramatic effects... (?)

Carla, IMO Sirius' death (and DD's if it turns to be true) might be related with that thing of "the heroe must go on his own..." But I still don't like it.

Have a nice weekend all of you!

Saturday, March 18th 2006 - 09:44:32 AM

Name:

 Elisa

Comments:

 Hi! Doubt...

In your opinion, why Rowling says that Sirius's death wasn't arbitrary? That he had to die to help Harry?

Welcome Noddi!!

Saturday, March 18th 2006 - 08:35:57 AM

Name:

 Jan

Location:

 NW PA USA

Comments:

 Something I noticed in GoF: When fake-Moody is showing the kids the Cruciatus curse, he points his wand at the insect and says, 'Crucio!', and when he wants to stop it, he simply moves his wand away.

When Voldemort uses it on Harry, he points his wand and says, 'Crucio!', but when he stops it, he again says, 'Crucio!' and it stopped.

Not important - just a curiosity. These things come to you after you've watched it 6 or 7 times. . . :o)

Friday, March 17th 2006 - 04:51:52 PM

Name:

 Carla

Location:

 Australia

Comments:

 I agree with both your points Nirmah and jan.
I also don't trust what harry thinks about dumbledore, beacue he was against him from the beginning. I've bbem away from the books for to long i have to go back and read some when i have the time, beacuse i can hardly remember anything.

Friday, March 17th 2006 - 02:10:36 AM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 Yes, Jan, I'm with you on your points.
Snape might not be good but certainly not evil either.
As a matter of fact, I'm absolutely convinced he is against Voldemort, for that I have no doubt.

Welcome Noddi!

Juliet, I am more blind than Harry!
I've noticed your news about JKR now. :shame on me:
I offer my home to her and her family for much less than that. LOL! (Obviously, it's not a mansion)
They can bring their dog too, I won't care. I'll help with the kids also, what more she could want?
Jo, come to PR and end your book here! LOL!

Thursday, March 16th 2006 - 03:33:25 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Nahima: I think it's so important that Dumbledore insisted that Harry get Snape and no one else! I am so totally opposed to the 'Dumbledore is so smart he's an idiot' theory, that I can't beleive DD didn't know exactly what he was doing. And, though Harry thought he saw rage on Snape's face, I don't trust Harry's view (hence, the glasses theory)in this. He's been wrong too many times.

Thursday, March 16th 2006 - 12:20:58 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 #2: From Dumbledore's comments to Harry earlier (I can't find it now, of course), he was well aware that his life was coming to an end, anyway. I think that is an important part of whatever agreement he might have had with Snape. As someone mentioned earlier, after DD was injured the first time, Snape may well have 'put a stopper in death' for him then. That would only last for awhile . . . even wizards die of old age.

It seems to me that the Avada Kedavra curse results in instant death . . . so no suffering. That DD seemed to hover in the air and then drop to the ground doesn't seem to fit with that curse as described in the books (though in the movie, Cedric went flying). After DD was dead, though, he couldn't be hurt further by the fall. And, he 'fell slowly'. . . why? An illusion, or did Snape keep him from falling quickly?

Thursday, March 16th 2006 - 12:19:55 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 # 3: I don't know why Snape might have thrown him over the edge intentionally, but I suppose there could be reasons. If he knew DD was taking Harry with him on his mission, he may have known Harry was up there, though he couldn't see him, and was afraid Harry would run to DD if his body was there. But that's pretty extreme extrapolation . . . just a suggestion.

All of this does not add up to Snape being a nice guy. I don't think he is, and I think that's why JKR said people shouldn't think of Snape as too nice. Not nice, but not evil, either . . . that's my vote!

Thursday, March 16th 2006 - 12:18:48 PM

Name:

 noddi

Comments:

 Either way, it must be said he has always done his best to keep Harry safe. There must be something there. Ah well.. we can only wait and see ;)

Oh and uhm... I've never seen Alan do anything in any of his parts that wasn't for a good reason. He is the one with the inside info on Snape. If he plays Snape a certain way, in my view it means something.

Thursday, March 16th 2006 - 10:32:15 AM

Name:

 noddi

Comments:

 Then again.. there's Dumbledore's murder. I don't buy the whole "he's not really dead" or the "it was part of the plan" theories. Simply not true. Dumbledore begged for Harry to go get Snape once they got back. Which suggests he wasn't aware of any plan. And for me, there's no way dumbledore's not really dead. The spell Harry was under gor broken. He must be dead. The only thing I can think of that would speak in Snape's defence there is the fact he might not have known what the assignment was when he took the unbreakable vow and once he found out, it was to late. He had to do it. Any other way.. he was on Voldemorts side there.

My theory is that he is with the side where he feels the most appreciated. I mean, he freaks out when Harry calls him a coward, he had the urge to prove himself, etc. Maybe he really was on the Order's side, but changed sides because no one (but dumbledore) believed in him. Nobody trusted him. And it is like Harry says: voldemort and Snape are very much alike. Maybe he does get the recognition he wants there.

Other than that. I also wouldn't be surprised if it turns out Snape was following his own agenda.

Thursday, March 16th 2006 - 10:31:13 AM

Name:

 noddi

Comments:

 Hey people.. I don't know if anyone already posted these thoughts before, but in my opinion you can't put Snape on one particular side. I mean, he's not good, but he's not evil either in my view. And he has done things to support the Order as well as follow Voldemort's orders.

For instance, I can't imagine Voldemort would've appreciated Snape alerting the Order in OotP. Which ever way you put it.. the fact the Order showed up ruined V's chances of ever hearing the profecy. Now, I can't believe that Voldemort would be so forgiving if he would find out Snape alerted the Order there. In my view, that doesn't sit well with the whole Death Eater thing. It does support the spy thing however.

Thursday, March 16th 2006 - 10:28:25 AM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 Don't know if this has been mentioned before, sorry in advance if the answer is "yes."

In HBP, after DD and Harry landed in the Astronomy Tower, Harry asked about the dark mark (if it was the real one) and received this answer:

"Go and wake Severus, " said Dumbledore faintly but clearly. "Tell him what has happened and bring him to me. Do nothing else, speak to nobody else, and do not remove your cloak. I shall wait here."
(HBP, Hardcover American Ed, page 583)

That "tell him what has happened" seems to state that Snape certainly knew about the horcruxes. After all, what has happened was precisely that Dumbledore got hurt trying to snatch an horcrux and DD didn't give Harry more instructions about what to say or what to hide from Snape. On the contrary, he ordered Harry to tell "what has happened", I take this as "everything that has happened" so Snape could knew right on the spot the urgency of the situation.

Nice day to all!

Thursday, March 16th 2006 - 10:08:52 AM

Name:

 Carla

Comments:

 I'm a bit behind again.

I think we can read into these things until the cows come home. Glasses are very symbolic, i mean it could and does stand for many different things, Weakess, unable to see the whole picture, (as you said) wisdom, his reliance of other people to help him and a whole bunch of other things that i'm too lazy to think of. Gosh i'm starting to sound like my english teacher, but not as enthused.




Thursday, March 16th 2006 - 01:31:24 AM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 Hi everyone!

Really... I had no clue about that clue!
Jan's idea seems to fit very well. After all, we short-sighted people need glasses = an aid to be able to see fine. Harry can't see by himself but needs the help of something to do it, probably its a symbol, he will need help too to focus or to see things as they really are not as he thinks them to be.

Wednesday, March 15th 2006 - 04:08:46 PM

Name:

 Juliet

Location:

 UK

Comments:

 From yesterday's Daily Telegraph:

WHERE TO POTTER?
She was on welfare when she sold the first Harry Potter book in a deal which was to make her one of the richest women in Britain. Now, J. K. Rowling's toughest decision is where to spend her summer holidays.
"A few weeks ago, word in the Hamptons spread that a writer, who turned out to be the megamillionaire Muggle, was looking for a 'very private' getaway big enough for her family of five," says my Stateside mole. "Apparently Rowling was willing to pay as much as £300,000 to rent a place for July and August. She's keen to use the time to finish off the seventh and final novel in the Harry Potter series."

Wednesday, March 15th 2006 - 04:03:55 PM

Name:

 Puddingdale

Comments:

 No time reading the Mapping much, Elisa. But I think there are no news in it anyway. Rather theories like ours and fun stuff to make you laugh :-)
The glasses as a clue? Hmmm, maybe it means he is not strong enough on his own, without his friends. I like your theory of figurative short-sightedness, Jan. And your idea to make that a "proof" Snape might be good.
Trust Snape, everyone!

Wednesday, March 15th 2006 - 11:45:02 AM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Yes, Elisa, it could be figurative, but it seems to me that JKR's use of the word 'clue' is significant. According to the dictionary:

clue = 1)fact or idea that serves as a guide . . . in a problem or investigation. 2)piece of evidence.

Being a woman of words, I think she would choose her words very carefully. So I think it's one of the many facts she has given us to aid us in our investigation of Harry's world. After all, anticipation of possible validation of our theories (for adults and children alike) is selling a LOT of books!

Wednesday, March 15th 2006 - 09:46:29 AM

Name:

 Elisa

Comments:

 Ciao, couldn't it be a figurative meaning? That's, we don't have to think that Harry is a sort of immortal being, but a person like us, not a potent wizard, but a boy with some defects.
These Italians....I didn't know we were famous for his glasses!!

At this site (one of many) there are Rowling's interviews, by theme, date...
http://www.madamscoop.org/themes/harry.htm

Wednesday, March 15th 2006 - 04:43:08 AM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Here's a question for all of you - In an interview I found on Quick Quotes Quill, JKR said:

She's . . . outraged that an Italian dust jacket shows Harry minus his glasses. "Don't they understand that they are the clue to his vulnerability?"

How are they a clue? Is it his near-sightedness? Which could relate to our previous discussion about how Harry sees things - how he 'reads' them. How he saw anger and hatred on Snape's face as he 'killed' Dumbledore when there's so much evidence against that. How he was SURE that Snape wanted to kill him, when Snape, in AR's words, 'only ever saved their lives'. How Harry heard Snape speak of the Dark Arts with a caress in his voice while Hermione heard practical advice such as Harry had given.

Are Harry's glasses a clue to a vulnerability of not being able to see the whole picture because he's focusing on smaller things. Snape does hate him, but in the larger picture, is he trying to save his life?

Tuesday, March 14th 2006 - 11:22:36 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Ciao, Elisa!
No, no defects at all . . . all simply beautiful!

A different role? Hmmmm. Well, I'm prejudiced, but I think he could do just about anything he put his mind to. Look at the wide range of roles he has successfully played. Whatever he played, he would make it uniquely his. He could do Dumbledore, Sirius, or Voldemort. Now, though, Ralph Fiennes does Voldemort so beautifully, it's hard to see anyone else doing it. I think the BEST role for Alan is Snape.

As far as time turners are concerned, all of them were destroyed in the fight in the Ministry of Magic at the end of OotP. It was mentioned by Hermione, I think - one of the kids, anyway - later, but I can't remember where. One of the other kids asked if they could use one for something and another said they had all been destroyed.

Tuesday, March 14th 2006 - 08:22:49 AM

Name:

 Elisa

Comments:

 Ciao Jan, my daughter has been, irreparably, corrupted by her insane Mom…however, she doesn’t like too much Harry, preferring Cedric!! Her female ideal is Hermione, the clever and smart girl.
And about The Pudge…it’s depends a lot on who “wears” it, and HE is simply perfect, young or old, thin or soft, grey or dark….*sigh* I can’t find any defects!!
In your opinion, except Snape, would there be another character right for him?

Might I have a time turner for me, too?
…..a question, couldn’t we have used it to save Dumbledore? Or Sirius? Why just Buckbeak?

Puddingdale are there any news in the Mapping?

Tuesday, March 14th 2006 - 04:12:55 AM

Name:

 Puddingdale

Comments:

 JAN: *drooooool* ;-)
Got my copy of Mapping the Wotld of HP today. Now, I only have to find the time to read it *excited*

Monday, March 13th 2006 - 03:09:41 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Alas! Age + ButterTarts = Pudge. That's ok. Who could act it better? Nobody! But wouldn't he have made a glorious Snape in his younger, thinner days??!!! If only they had a time-turner and could go back to his Romeo & Juliet days and have him play young Snape in OotP!

Monday, March 13th 2006 - 01:52:15 PM

Name:

 Puddingdale

Comments:

 Pudge, glorious pudge. A difference to the Snape in the books we have never mentioned before.
Yet, what was gained in weight was gained in gorgeousness. Erm, Rowling wanted Snape to be gorgeous, didn't she? *roooooooofl*

Monday, March 13th 2006 - 10:45:12 AM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 ELISA: I'm afraid your daughter's Snapey views have been seriously pre-skewed! Now, how could that happen???? :oD
She's too young, of course, to relate to Harry's view of a mean teacher. When she gets into regular school she might begin to understand that view.

My first Snape-like teacher was in 1st grade, when I was 5-6 years old. I was horribly shy and sensitive and she had no patience. She'd tell me to read something aloud but to speak in front of a group of people then was terrifying so I'd start to cry. 'Oh, what's wrong with you? Stop crying!' Whereupon I would cry even harder. If HP had been around then, I would have 'hated' Snape.

Of course, even with understanding Harry's viewpoint, your daughter will already have a very different view (of movie Snape, at least) than most kids! ;o) And, quite possibly, an unnatural attraction to pudge. . . ! Pudge, I say, not fudge.

Sunday, March 12th 2006 - 06:29:22 PM

Name:

 Elisa

Comments:

 Ciao, about Snape and children, I’d like to tell you which is my experience. My daughter (5 years old) is growing with HP, she has started to watch it since she was three, telling me the prophetic phrase: - We watch only Snape… – just after a couple of times.
I stayed always with her and I forwarded some scaring moments, but she wasn’t frightened of Snape or Voldemort, but just of Aragog or the Wolf/Lupin.
Things/objects, not feelings. Each age has its own fears, and experiences teach us not to be scared.
Now, she knows Snape isn’t evil (who could have persuaded her?? Guess…), and even HPGoF didn’t impress her too much, again it wasn’t Voldemort but the dragon hers worst moment.

Sunday, March 12th 2006 - 03:19:06 PM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 Hi, reading your comments about Snape in the books vs Snape in the movies it came to mind the AR's appeareance in... OMG, what's the name of the show?
*running to check my videos*
Jimmy Kimmel! that was it.
OK, there were other kids as guests too and the host asked about their opinion about Snape. One of them answered promptly "Evil." AR's reaction was pretty funny, it was something like "I'm always saving Harry's life!" LOL!

So it is apparent that no matter the differences between the book version and the movie version, the result is the same. The kids share Harry's POV without thinking if it is right or wrong. It is the natural solidarity toward one of their own in contraposition (hope this word exists in english) with the natural animosity toward a nasty adult and, worst than that, a very demanding teacher of a more than complex subject. (With all due respects to teachers among us)

Keeping this in mind, I have more reasons to repeat our mantra "Rowling knows that making Snape really evil would be pedagogically unforgivable." (Credits belong to Puddingdale, thanks for it!)

:D

Sunday, March 12th 2006 - 12:24:55 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 I only have my one granddaughter who is interested in HP, but I have no doubt you're right about all kids' reaction to Snape. They will always take Harry's viewpoint - as they should, even with the less-awful movie Snape. Book-Snape is pretty horrible - to child or adult, I would expect! Mostly because he is so unfair and nasty to children, and that is always uncalled-for.

Sunday, March 12th 2006 - 10:54:46 AM

Name:

 Carla

Location:

 Australia

Comments:

 I never relised how scary the movies are for kids. I babysat on the weekend for a 7 and 10yr old, we watched the 3rd movie and i had to turn if 3/4ths of thw way through because it was scaring them. I asked them out interest what they thought of snape, they just said that they didn't like him, which i think is the general response.
I agree wit hall who said that Snape in the movie is very different from the book snape. The way that alan plays him is very... deliberate, each move and facial expression is the act that makes the movie Snape.
I think its funny at the start of the video they have a montage of what has happened in the previous movies, they show important scenes, but they always put a random clip of snape in the middle of it.

Sunday, March 12th 2006 - 01:27:22 AM

Name:

 Puddingdale

Comments:

 Right you are, JAN. Thank you for your elaborate answer.
The only thing I still insist on is that even kids who do not know the books find Alan's modified version of Snape evil. For them he is Harry's enemy, he is scary and mean. Some may even enjoy watching Alan as much as we do, but they still claim he is evil.
Yes, I interviewed loads of kids on that :-) And I tried to convince them there may be a good side to Snape as well. However, they are pretty sure our man in black can only be evil.
Anyway, none of that really tells us if Snape is a baddie or not :-( We still have to wait *booohooo* But speculating is so much fun :-)

Saturday, March 11th 2006 - 07:22:35 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Puddingdale (3!): Yes, it was said in the book both that Snape was tormented 'because he exists' and also because he was always hexing James. I think Sirius said both things, too. I agree that Snape was already a not-nice person and an outcast. He was probably jealous of James' success in Quiddich, with the girls, etc. And he had not learned to care about himself enough to take care of himself physically - hence, the greasiness. And he still hadn't as an adult. He certainly sounds like the classic villain in the books, doesn't he? Alan's Snape is much modified from that. BUT WHY, ALAN, WHY!!??? Why does his wonderfulness tease us this way???? Heh, heh, heh . . . maybe Alan has a slightly 'evil' streak? No . . . he's playing this for the kids, too. No doubt about that.

Saturday, March 11th 2006 - 11:04:03 AM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Puddingdale (2): No doubt, the story is written for children. And much of what is in it is lessons for life. That friends are important, that each person has something to offer, etc. Kids who read the books will see Harry's point of view and I think, basically, Harry's point of view will be correct, otherwise the kids will be horribly disappointed since he represents themselves. However, I can see the value in teaching children that all is not as it seems. Especially when it comes to people. You have a mean teacher, but he/she didn't spring into the world mean - something made him/her that way. Also, you may think a teacher is 'out to get you' but that doesn't mean they are. Or - your instincts could be right. This would be a valuable lesson for children, I think.

We all have to learn about the complexity of people, and Snape is an ideal teacher. He is a very complicated person. That still doesn't tell us which way it will go, of course!!!!

Saturday, March 11th 2006 - 10:56:31 AM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 Oh don't worry Jan, I've already seen your post in the GB and think is OK. After all, you are commenting about something put there not here.

You know, I laughed a lot reading about Emma's "drooling" but the part of my brain that works better told me "don't you dare to tell me THAT makes sense." LOL!

Saturday, March 11th 2006 - 10:55:59 AM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Puddingdale: To me, Snape in the books is a totally different person than Snape in the movies (so far). This is what confuses me most. They do everything for a reason when making a movie. They're well aware that Alan's Snape is, although intimidating, nowhere near as horrible as in the books. Kids, because they buy in to the story more, probably look at Alan and see the Snape from the books (those who have read it). I can suspend previous impressions easily enough - I don't look at movie Snape and see Col. Brandon at all, but I don't come to it quite as 'innocently' (as Alan puts it) as a child, who personally relates to Harry.

Saturday, March 11th 2006 - 10:55:30 AM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Nahima: SHE DID NOT! It was only great respect she showed when saying he has a fantastic voice. And I think she was quite serious when she said 'He's scary.' The boys agreed but with less enthusiasm than she showed (about his being scary, that is).

I put an answer to that on the regular GB . . . probably shouldn't have, though. Should have directed Marlina here, instead. Oh, well. I was watching the DVD at the time I made that post, too, to be SURE I remembered it correctly.

Saturday, March 11th 2006 - 10:34:17 AM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 Hi everyone!

Thanks a lot Jan, Alfan and CatsPlay for the information about the DVD! Have a question, did Emma seems to drool when talking about AR's voice? There is a thread on IMDb AR forum about this, Marlina put the link on the main GB, that says so. I found what is said in the thread very funny but a little bit odd.

I'm somewhat lost with all the recent ideas, have no idea (sorry for the repetition) what to write myself. LOL!

Well, about Voldemort's offer to spare Lily's life, I truly believe there's something hidden there. Actually, there is a discussion about this on TLC and, no matter how good the theories are, I still feel that the real reason is going to be something else. I put my bets that it is related with Lily's occupation or the huge thing about her that JKR promised to tell and hasn't yet.

If you want to take a look,
here is the link.

Have a nice weekend! (and don't forget to vote in the Hello thingy) ;)

Saturday, March 11th 2006 - 10:24:33 AM

Name:

 Puddingdale

Comments:
Of course, she might as well want to show the kids that their first impression and Harry the hero's were right: Snape, the greasy git, is evil. As I said, a pedagogically unbearable statement.
Plus: I think James bothering "Snivellus" was not only because Severus was hexing him all the time. Wasn't it said Snivellus was hated "because he existed"? To me that means he was really an outcast rather for who he was and what he looked like. I'd take his greasy hair as a sign of being neglected then.
On the other hand greasy hair, hooked nose and being thin point to the classical villain a la Dickens. Hmmhmmm. I am lost.

Saturday, March 11th 2006 - 06:34:23 AM

Name:

 Puddingdale

Comments:

 Once again: Is Snape evil?
The deleted scene seems to suggest it. If Snape tells Karkaroff he has nothing to be afraid of, that can be because Snape did not denounce fellow Death Eaters and he really did not fear the Dark Lord. But maybe the remark only means he is not afraid because he feels strong with the Order?
Anyway, even if Snape comes across nicer in the movies than in the books (touching Dumbledore's shoulder, protecting the kids even more obviously), children are still afraid of Snape and think he is evil. I have not met one single child who sees the good Snape does. They always claim he is a Death Eater, he killed Dumbledore, he hates Harry... So, if Rowling wants to surprise the children (no matter if they know the books or the movies only), she must make Snape Dumbledore's man. And I guess her prior aim when inventing the story was to write for kids, not for adults.

Saturday, March 11th 2006 - 06:33:49 AM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 My impression was that he just opened his mouth in surprise, but. . .

The orange type on the dark grey background is fine (and I like the look), but on the posting page it's on the tan background and all but disappears.

My question about it was: can you post if you don't have any kind of an LJ yourself? And, if so, how? I wasn't sure of the rules . . .

Friday, March 10th 2006 - 04:19:01 PM

Name:

 CatsPlay

Homepage URL:

 http://www.rickman247.com

Comments:

 Jan,

thanks for the thoughts and for reading the discussion. Yes, I had forgotten to mention that I saw Snape's mouth drop open when Fudge tells him "a boy has been killed". Actually, I couldn't quite tell if he said something (that we couldn't hear), or if he just opened his mouth.

Now I'm all worried about my orange type on grey background! (not that I know how to change it at this point).

Friday, March 10th 2006 - 02:06:12 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Waaaaah! I've got to remember to post these in reverse order!


Anyway, Snape's reaction, when he wasn't even mentioned in the book until they go to Moody's office, reminds me of PoA when Snape protected the kids at risk to his own life and in the book he was unconscious. NOTHING that obviously different in a movie is done for no reason at all. The movies have consistently cut out Snape's worst scenes (like the one in HBP where he humiliates the kids in class) and insert ones which paint him in a more positive light. WHY?

I see two possible reasons:
1)because Snape, in the end, will prove to be - not good, but - not evil, so they don't want people (kids especially, of course) to hate him too much OR
2)they want to make the surprise at the end to be more complete when he turns out to be on Voldemort's side.

Friday, March 10th 2006 - 11:31:15 AM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Now, Alan likes to surprise and even shock a little, no doubt about that, but. . . the second scenario seems unlikely to me. JKR says, 'people shouldn't think Snape is too nice', but that doesn't mean he's evil, either.

The scene in PoA shows Snape protecting the kids. Why? There's nobody else around to say anything if he simply allows Lupin to kill them. He could make it look as if he had tried in case Lupin remembered it clearly later. And in GoF - who would have thought anything of it if he hadn't gone to Dumbledore, lean over with a concerned look on his face, and put his hand on Dumbledore's back. He could look concerned from a distance, and do as Fudge asked him to do - keep everyone in their seats. That would have been just as convincing to show he wasn't on V's side. You have to consider his motives, but why do more than necessary? In fact, when decieving, it's best to keep it simple.

Friday, March 10th 2006 - 11:29:33 AM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 CatsPlay: I went to your LJ and the discussion was interesting. I tried to post but I don't have an LJ and was confused by the options and couldn't read the orange writing on the tan background. *Sigh* Alas! Old people are easily confused!

We discussed that here a little, too, I think. About how Snape put his hand on Dumbledore's back in GoF after Harry & Cedric came back. I noticed that in the theater right away and was a little surprised. Also, when Fudge is telling Snape and McGonagall that a boy has been killed, even though Alan's face is turning away, in frame-by-frame mode you can see his mouth drop open.


Friday, March 10th 2006 - 11:28:16 AM

Name:

 CatsPlay

Homepage URL:

 http://www.rickman247.com

Comments:

 Hello

I just wanted to make note that there is kind of an interesting discussion about Snape in one of the GOF scenes going on at my LJ, here, if anyone wants to throw in their two cents.

Friday, March 10th 2006 - 08:12:50 AM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Elisa - That IS one of the big questions, isn't it? Why would Voldemort give Lily a chance to step aside? They said he didn't know what her refusing to do so would have (Harry living and some of V's powers being transferred to him). . . so WHY???

Well, the woman knows how to write a good mystery, eh?

Thursday, March 9th 2006 - 08:28:16 AM

Name:

 Carla

Comments:

 wow its like you all post at the same time. I was a bit dissapointed that snape was not in the last movie very much, but i was excited that David tennant was in it, he's cute, but then i was dissapointed again that he wasn't in it much either. I laughed so hard when i saw that study scene with snape... it was a bit random but really enjoyable.

I read something once, that Dan and rupert were being stupid around the sets... i forget which movie... but they were drawing a chacature of our precious Alan, and he came up while they were doing it and stood behind them.

i thinks its cute they think he is scary

Thursday, March 9th 2006 - 02:22:48 AM

Name:

 Elisa

Comments:

 Thanks Reedpipe for JKR's words, I have never read them.

JKR: [silence].... James was going to be killed anyway. Do you see what I mean? I’m not saying James wasn't ready to; he died trying to protect his family but he was going to be murdered anyway.

I can't understand why he had to be murder, anyway, and Lily no....though.

JKR: ....But if in cold blood you were told, "Get out of the way," you know, what would you do? I mean, I don't think any mother would stand aside from their child. But does that answer it?

NOOOO!!

She did very consciously lay down her life. She had a clear choice -

Again I can't understand where the choice was...to escape, to leave his baby, to join Voldemort? And most of all, why did HE offer her the opportunity to choose? Voldemort doesn't have a good feeling with love, indeed, but "I can't think he can think" that a mother could stand aside from her son, while 'someone called Voldemort' is just in the same room...

Thursday, March 9th 2006 - 02:07:00 AM

Name:

 Alfan

Location:

 Canada

Comments:

 Yes, i sure would like to have the deleted scenes right into the movie intead of seperate and in the features. They once aired The Philosopher Stone with the deleted scenes in on TV ( before Chamber of Secrets was released) and i thouroghly enjoyed it. They did the same with RHPOT when they released the extended verion of the movie ( of course they were all Alan's parts that Kevin cut out) and that was enjoyable too. I think one day they will release them as i dont think they are to terribly long and wont add a huge amount of time to the movie itself. ( Unlike the LOTR deleted scenes wich take alote of time).

Wednesday, March 8th 2006 - 10:10:58 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Chris - those two clips have been around for a bit - a few days, anyway. I'm sure they're on the DVD and they're nice on the DVD, of course, 'cause you get to see them big on the tv. I don't remember seeing Alan in the Yule Ball preparation stuff, though. Of course Snape doesn't dance, so he's not in that choreography. The kids are fun, though. I haven't watched the special effects stuff on the DVD yet, though.

Oh - I'm watching the interview with the kids and they're saying that Mike Newell really got into the Snape hitting the boys with the book thing! Ah - I get it now! And, talking about Alan, Rupert says he has a dry sense of humor - that's what I couldn't hear. Then they say 'He's not evil, though.' Well, I HOPE not! And then Emma says he's kind of scary, though.

Wednesday, March 8th 2006 - 09:39:24 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 There was something Rupert said that I couldn't understand while they were talking about Alan - that must have been about him getting carried away hitting them with the books! I'll have to go listen to it again with that in mind. DARN! Maybe I'll pop in on Snape & Harry in the storeroom again, too!

Wednesday, March 8th 2006 - 09:20:36 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 I watched the extras again this afternoon and realized I had gotten some of the bits about the interview wrong. My slipping memory! It was Emma who said Alan was a little scary and the others agreed. I think that's funny.

Alfan - would you, like me, prefer to have the deleted scenes reinserted into the movie rather than having them on a separate disc? How about everyone else?

Wednesday, March 8th 2006 - 09:14:15 PM

Name:

 Alfan

Location:

 Canada

Comments:

 Yah, i must of watched that deleted scene about 10 times already and all i can say is i cant wait (if Alan does it) a true duel scene between him and Harry in movie six. He has such fluent motion when he is about to use his wand, like in Chamber and now in the deleted scene. I truly enjoyed the interview with Emma, Daniel and Rupert. The comment about how Mike threw things in the movie that are not in the book like the dancing with MgGonnagal scene for Rupert and the Great Hall studying scene with Snape. They said that was a great invented scene and that Alan enjoyed that a little to much, hitting them with the books. It was cute when they agreed that Alan isnt as scary as his character, then Emma says " he is a bit scary" but then they say its because of his voice. Oh and was anyone else really surprised when it was Richard Curtis interviewing the kids,,,,,no wonder he asked about Alan being Snape. Another thing i thought was that they had great fun filming this movie and it was great to see the kids having alote of fun on set. I giggled when the camera caught Emma Watson on one of the beds in the tent at the world cup scenes talking on a cell phone,,,,,it was funny. There was not any Snape or Alan except the references from the kids and the odd side shot but i think it was well worth it, truly enjoyed it.

Wednesday, March 8th 2006 - 06:34:12 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Snape/Karkaroff is 1:40 long - longer than I expected, although that includes Harry walking out into the courtyard. It's really good! Snape is telling Karkaroff there's nothing to worry about and K says, 'Then you won't mind rolling up your sleeve!' Snape turns, sees K reaching for him, yelps, and lifts his left arm above his head. Then K says, 'You don't fool me, Severus - you're scared! Admit it!' Snape says silkily(his composure restored), 'I have nothing to be scared of, Igor. Can you say the same?' K walks off. Snape goes to zap some more kids and Harry sees Mad-Eye across the courtyard!
Oooo! Does Snape have nothing to worry about because he's evil??? Then why did he jump and yelp when challenged to roll up his sleeve??? Eh? Eh? (why, anyway - everyone knows he has the mark . . .). Or is he a good guy and just arrogant enough to believe he can fool Voldemort????

It's a great scene - I only wish they put the extras into the movie where they belong!

The scene in Snape's Potion storeroom is FANTASTIC in slow motion - both backwards and forwards. I've watched it that way several time, already. Every beautiful lip movement!!! Close up! Mmmm mmmm mmmm! Ahhh - you'll LOVE it!

Wednesday, March 8th 2006 - 04:53:28 PM

Name:

 Chris

Comments:

 *laughing* Oh my, well that was to be expected actually. :)
So how`s the Snape/Karkaroff scene?? Details, details!

Wednesday, March 8th 2006 - 03:22:12 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 There is no interview with AR that I can find BUT there is one with Rupert, Emma, and Dan in which the interviewer asks specifically about working with Alan. He asks if he has a sense of humor (I think - it was hard to hear), obviously knowing that he does, and Rupert said, 'Oh, yeah . . .' Not very convincingly. Then Dan says 'He's kind of scary, too, though.' and they all agreed because of his voice! I thought that was very funny! I could just see these kids slightly intimidated in that picture of them laughing in the study hall scene.

Wednesday, March 8th 2006 - 03:15:56 PM

Name:

 Chris

Comments:

 Hey guys, on www.veritaserum.com scroll down until you see the following title : New Yule Ball and First Task videos.
There is a link to a video but I can`t seem to open it. Considering it`s about the Yule ball maybe we can catch a glimpse or something. Or am I the last turkey to arrive and you peopl already knew about this? :)

Wednesday, March 8th 2006 - 02:22:46 PM

Name:

 Claudia

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 Hello all! I see Dreambook still hasn't gotten all of their problems worked out yet. It usually takes them a couple of weeks to get things smoothed out when they do something new. I ask your patience until they get things back to 100%.

I am still on them about getting things ironed out as soon as possible.

You might want to do as Jan does and when your post is particularly long, copy and paste it into NotePad or WordPad as a backup until you know it posts.

Wednesday, March 8th 2006 - 01:37:46 PM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 Oh okey, about the incantations...eer...have no idea to add since I've not done my so-called research yet. *blush*
Probably there is nothing to add, but I want to check the whole thing just in case. *reblush*

:D

Happy Women's Day!

Wednesday, March 8th 2006 - 01:28:31 PM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 LOL Jan! Wow, enjoying the DVD already, lucky girl!
Hey, is there anything else with AR on it? I mean, something behind the scenes, an interview, comments by others..anything!

I agree with you, Puddingdale, seems to be such a huge goal to accomplish in only one book, to answer ALL our doubts, that I can't think how JKR will do it.

Thanks Reedpipe for bring that piece of interview.
As Puddingdale points out, it's a somewhat odd explanation. I can understand the difference between James and Lily's deaths, James had no choice but to die fighting for his family whether Lily was given by Voldemort the chance to survive. However, JKR recognizes herself that Lily's decision was the obvious one for a mother who loves her child. The love of a mother is so absolute that leaves her no other choice than to sacrifice everything in order to protect her children.

Anyway, this was the explanation. The only thing left is to know why Voldemort gave Lily the option to live instead of killing her immediately like he did to James.

Have to check the posts again, I just lost track of what I was going to write additionally. LOL!

Wednesday, March 8th 2006 - 01:17:33 PM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 OK, I'm in! Hello everyone!

That is one of the zillion questions we have in mind, Elisa, the strange "side-effect" of the Avada Kedavra Snape did to Dumbledore. All of the prior examples of this curse have been the same, the victim simply die right on the spot without any kind of "flying". Some people try to explain it because of the feelings behind the curse at the moment of performing it (of course, they're EvilSnape followers...booo!). They say that the prior "Avadakedavraed" victims were killed out of hate or angry. FakedMoody used the curse during a lesson, he didn't hate the spider, was just a routinary thing to do. Wormtail even didn't know Cedric Diggory, however he killed him following Voldemort's orders "kill the spare." There was no hate involved there, unfortunately Cedric was only a nuisance at the moment. The incident with the fox, just the same, Narcissa or Bellatrix (can't remember who) used the curse without even knowing against whom, like the cowboys of the old west "shot first, inquiry later."

I'm not an EvilSnape follower (no way! JKR can't do that to us, please!), however I have to agree that it is not clear in the books if the feelings/emotions the attacker feel at the moment of using the killing curse can have a side-effect.

Let me send this before I lose it...

Wednesday, March 8th 2006 - 12:37:51 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 I'm just watching the Ball on the GoF DVD. Dumbledore and McGonagall step out onto the dance floor and there's Snape standing with his hands behind his back next to a small witch. She glances quickly up at him, it seems . . .

Witch *thinking* 'Well, aren't you going to ask me to dance, you big, bad boy in black?'

Snape *thinking* 'I don't indulge in such frivolity. I have to go outside soon and zap the kids making out in the coaches!' (bushes would have been funnier)

Wednesday, March 8th 2006 - 12:30:06 PM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 Seems there are posting problems again over here...

Let me do this test first, just in case...

*beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep*

Wednesday, March 8th 2006 - 12:10:03 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Dumbledore sent Petunia the howler - he told Harry so in HBP and said his message in it 'Remember my last' referred to a letter he had sent before.

I don't think it's strange at all that Levicorpus would become popular with the kids, whether it was invented by a misfit or not - it's exactly the kind of thing kids would love to torment each other with. Thoroughly embarassing but not deadly.

I think you're right that JKR will never be able to answer all of the questions we have. But, then, it's hard to remember sometimes that Snape is only a supporting character, along with the other adults. Only enough needs to be known to explain the storyline. And there's SO much more we'd love to know!!!

Wednesday, March 8th 2006 - 12:07:40 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 That's an interesting point about Dumbledore. 'For a split second, he seemed to hang suspended beneath the shining skull, and then he fell slowly backward.' Slightly different because of translation into another language??? Anyway, a split second isn't very long and it says SEEMED to hang. This could be the phenomenon where time seems to slow down in certain situations. I've experienced it myself when I was once in an auto accident. I had to turn into the median strip on a divided highway to avoid another car (with children in it)and our car spun around and turned over, ending on its top in the left lane of the other side. While it was turning over, it felt slow and gentle, but I don't see how it could have been. Could Harry's shock have caused such a sensation? Of course, then it says 'he slowly fell' - no 'seemed' there. So it could be a clue. Because you're absolutely right, Elisa, that Avada Kedavra causes instant death. Hmmmm. When I read that, I did kind of wonder why he went flying through the air. . . JKR has said, in answer to speculation about DD coming back to life: 'When you're dead you're dead.' But is he dead???? Hmmm?

Wednesday, March 8th 2006 - 12:06:23 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 The Dreambook hates me again!! :o(

Snape uses both his wand and an incantation to 'fix' Malfoy after Harry used the Sectumsempra curse on him and (I think) he used both in his Occlumancy lessons with Harry. But I think he may have only used an incantation to save harry from Quirrel.

I know that it has been said that Voldemort gave Lily 3 chances to step aside and live and she didn't - that was what saved Harry. James didn't save Harry even though he sacrificed himself because he was never given a chance to step aside. But I can't find any direct reference to it in the books. Is it there? A direct description I mean, and not oblique references to it.

Wednesday, March 8th 2006 - 12:05:34 PM

Name:

 Puddingdale

Comments:

 Sorry for double-posting - one message even being shorter than the other. I had similar problems as Jan. And the strange thing: My messages did not really get through according to the programme, but there they are. Well...
As for Rowling's "answer": She still did not say why Lily was given a choice, or am I missing something? *scratches head* To be honest, her explanation that James's courage was different for he was to be killed anyway, is a bit weird to me. Okay, he had nothing to lose. But as a "normal" mother Lily did not really have a choice either, right? And WHY would Voldemort care to give her that pseudo-choice? That must be an important clue (probably that is why Rowling does not explain it)... *thinking in vain*

Wednesday, March 8th 2006 - 11:56:30 AM

Name:

 Reedpipe

Location:

 CT

Comments:

 Hi, everybody! *waves*

Elisa, regarding why Voldie said Lily "needn't have died" . . . here's what JKR told Emerson Spartz, the kid who started Mugglenet:

ES: This is one of my burning questions since the third book - why did Voldemort offer Lily so many chances to live? Would he actually have let her live?

JKR: Mmhm.

ES: Why?

JKR: [silence] Can't tell you. But he did offer, you're absolutely right. Don't you want to ask me why James's death didn't protect Lily and Harry? There’s your answer, you've just answered your own question, because she could have lived and chose to die. James was going to be killed anyway. Do you see what I mean? I’m not saying James wasn't ready to; he died trying to protect his family but he was going to be murdered anyway. He had no - he wasn't given a choice, so he rushed into it in a kind of animal way, I think there are distinctions in courage. James was immensely brave. But the caliber of Lily's bravery was, I think in this instance, higher because she could have saved herself. Now any mother, any normal mother would have done what Lily did. So in that sense her courage too was of an animal quality but she was given time to choose. James wasn't. It's like an intruder entering your house, isn't it? You would instinctively rush them. But if in cold blood you were told, "Get out of the way," you know, what would you do? I mean, I don't think any mother would stand aside from their child. But does that answer it? She did very consciously lay down her life. She had a clear choice -

ES: And James didn't.

Wednesday, March 8th 2006 - 10:29:41 AM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Well, I wrote a fairly long post and when I posted, I got no security code again. What's worse is that I hadn't saved the text in WordPad before I posted it and when I backed up, the posting form was blank. That's the first time that has happened to me!

Wednesday, March 8th 2006 - 10:34:41 AM

Name:

 Puddingdale

Comments:

 *thinkthinkthink*
Hmmm, I thought the Levicorpus was what Snape referred to when blaming Harry he was like his father using his own spells agianst him. And I agree the hanging upside down is an indication. Strange though that a spell that misfit Snape invented should have become so popular.
The more we ramble on, the more I am convinced Rowling will never be able to answer all the open questions in Book Seven. No way. Why, oh why did she not give us more clues earlier instead of packing it all into the last volume? *ggrrrr*
By the by, who sent Petunia the Howler in OotP? Was it the mysterious Horcrux hunter? *scratches head* Or have I just forgotten we already know it?
Yeah, Snape is sometimes using incantations. Uuuuuuh, I hope they will leave that in the next movie. Want to hear Mr Chocolate Voice do an incantation ;-) Ahem, I am digressing. Do not know if that means anything. Maybe just that Snape is accomplished enough to not always need a wand and thus he might have done something else and not the Aveda Kedavra spell in HBP. He might have thought another spell while saying the forbidden words, probably thus pushing Dumbledore from the tower. Normally Aveda Kedavra would kill immediately. So, it was probably "only" manslaughter, not murder. But I still believe in a plan between Dumbie and Snape. Enjoy your day :-)

Wednesday, March 8th 2006 - 09:34:37 AM

Name:

 Puddingdale

Comments:

 *thinkthinkthink*
Hmmm, I thought the Levicorpus was what Snape referred to when blaming Harry he was like his father using his own spells agianst him. And I agree the hanging upside down is an indication. Strange though that a spell that misfit Snape invented should have become so popular.
The more we ramble on, the more I am convinced Rowling will never be able to answer all the open questions in Book Seven. No way. Why, oh why did she not give us more clues earlier instead of packing it all into the last volume? *ggrrrr*
By the by, who sent Petunia the Howler in OotP? Was it the mysterious Horcrux hunter? *scratches head* Or have I just forgotten we already know it?
Yeah, Snape is sometimes using incantations. Uuuuuuh, I hope they will leave that in the next movie. Want to hear Mr Chocolate Voice do an incantation ;-) Ahem, I am digressing. Do not know if that means anything. Maybe just that Snape is accomplished enough to not always need a wand and thus he might have done something else and not the Aveda Kedavra spell in HBP. He might have thought another spell while saying the forbidden words, probably thus pushing Dumbledore from the tower. Normally Aveda Kedavra would kill immediately. So, it was probably "only" manslaughter, not murder. But I still believe in a plan between Dumbie and Snape. Enjoy your day :-)

Wednesday, March 8th 2006 - 09:32:46 AM

Name:

 Elisa

Comments:

 Ciao,
wandering about some HP's forums, I found a thing, on which I haven’t still reflected, and that I don’t if it’s really true.
It was said that, usually, Avada Kedavra is a curse which causes just to fall down dead (two episodes in GoF), instead, Dumbledore was “hanging suspended beneath the shining skull, and then he slowly fell backward”, could it be a difference? What do you think?
Another thing, why Voldermort, telling Harry about his parent’s death, remarks that Lily “needn’t have died”…The Dark Lord killed James without any regrets, which was the difference?

Happy Women’s Day to all!!!

Wednesday, March 8th 2006 - 02:06:53 AM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 That's right Jan, James didn't say the curse out loud. And I agree with Puddingdale and you, probably Snape used Sectumsempra on James, controlling it to make a cut on the face only, obviously the full curse can be lethal and Snape would have been expelled or "Azkabanned" for that. I said in my prior post that Snape did appear at the bathroom scene, "to Harry's disgrace", on the contrary I should have said "to Harry's luck", otherwise he could have killed Draco unintentionally.

Well, speaking of curses, Wingardium Leviosa also makes things to levitate, I don't know if it works with people too (I got "T" in all my OWLS). Besides, I believe that the way Snape and the muggles in the Quidditch championship were levitated (upside down) indicated the use of the same curse. Hmm.. I'll bet on the Levicorpus, because of the upside down effect.

Hey, I've just remember something, Remus told Harry that the "Levicorpus" was widely used during their school years. Have to check the exact quote, but he said something like it was the curse "in mode" those days. So Puddingdale, take a deep breath and relax, this curse cannot be used as proof of Snape's evilness. *me breathing deeply and relaxing*

On another matter, yesterday night I read a comment in TLC that caught my attention. It was about Snape's way of doing magic, the many times we found Snape making incantations instead of using his wand.

Since we're discussing Snape's worst memory, I've been reading the specific chapter where it occurs and remembered there is a part during the occlumency lessons that Harry saw Snape "muttering under his breath". In this instant Harry did the Protego thing and it was when he was able to see Snape's memories as a child and later as a teenager.

Why was Snape muttering anything? More important, WHAT was he muttering? As long as I've noticed, the Legilimens is a curse like any other, which effects are immediately, I mean, there's no need to "support" it with additional things.

I'm going to do my own research in the whole series in order to find all the times Snape is "singing" magic. The only ones I can recall are: during the first year, protecting Harry from his wild hexed "Nimbus" and recently in HBP healing Draco after Harry "sectumsempread" him.

*muttering under my breath too*

Tuesday, March 7th 2006 - 07:28:19 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 In Snape's Worst Memory, Snape reaches his wand, there's a flash of light and a gash appeared on James' face. So it could have been Sectum Sempra IF you can use that to inflict a simple cut. When Harry used it, not even knowing what it did, he split Malfoy from one end to the other! Of course, that could have been because Malfoy had started to use the Avada Kadavra curse on him, causing extreme feelings. But there's no way to know if it was the same curse or not. However - it was only a cut. If not reported to the staff, Snape would not have been punished.

Of course, when Snape was a Death Eater, it's very likely he would pass on Levicorpus to them. But James' curse which levitates Snape - both times - is unspoken, so can we assume the only one which can do that IS Levicorpus? I can't find anywhere it's specified.

I agree that what James did to Snape was one of the most embarassing things you could do to a 15-year-old. James was no angel. But Sirius and Lupin told Harry that Snape was constantly hexing James any chance he got, so. Which came first - the chicken or the egg? Snape hexing James or James hexing Snape? I felt very sorry for Snape after that - at least for that part of his life (and his younger life with his parents).

Tuesday, March 7th 2006 - 04:53:41 PM

Name:

 Puddingdale

Comments:

 JAN, I agree Snape must have known Harry found the Sectumsepmra curse in his book. His reaction seemed to imply that.
But how come James knew Snape's Levicorpus spell? All right, he might have heard it from the inventor himself when Snape used it on someone else. And did you notice? At the Quidditch World Cup, the Death Eaters used that very curse (Levicorpus) on the poor Muggles floating in the air. So, obviously they learned from Snape. Hope that does not mean Snape is evil.
As for Sectumsempra: I think Snape did use that spell when he was at school. In the Worst Memory he defends himself against Sirius (or was it James) with a curse that cuts his opponents cheek. So, that might have been the one. What do you think? And do you think Snape got away with that? Oh, maybe we will learn how the worst memory continued. *hope* And whether James really took off Snape's pants. ;-) Poor boy. I can't understand why some kids keep saying James' deed was not too bad here. I cannot think of anything more embarrassing...

Tuesday, March 7th 2006 - 01:34:47 PM

Name:

 Carla

Comments:

 Wow i didn't realise i was away for so long... so many posts and really good points.
Now talking about the book thing i think i orobabally was planted for harry. When i didn't think much of it the first time i read it because there are heaps of old books at my school that have been there since forever and they all have tips and writing in them, but now it was there for a perpose. Maybe.. i can' read the book to check this so bear with me... that sluggie found it and gave it to harry to help him... i have a feeling that is a bad point.. im not very attentive . ;s

I'll be back, lets see how long it takes to write a short story before tomorrow. hopefull y i won't miss so many posts this time :)

Tuesday, March 7th 2006 - 02:12:59 AM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 I don't think there's any doubt that Snape knew exactly where Harry got the Sectum Sempra curse because he immediately told him to bring his books to him. He could have 'read' it with Legilimancy, but I think he knew because the book was the ONLY place Harry could have gotten it. I think THAT curse Snape would have kept to himself. After all, think of the consequences if Snape had ever used it on a human being while in school! Also, there's no doubt he knew that wasn't the right book. Partly because the book had 'Roonil Wazlib' written inside the front cover (from Ron's trick quill from the twins). Harry said that was his nickname. Snape saw right through that - no doubt. But it is extremely odd that Harry got away with that! I feel certain that Dumbledore's hand is in there, whether directly or through Snape.
By the way . . . that book is still in the Room of Requirement in the cupboard Harry put it in! Will Harry go back to get it, even if he doesn't go back to school????

Monday, March 6th 2006 - 04:53:06 PM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 Hi people!

That's an interesting idea Jan.
You know, at the time I read that part (Harry using Sectumsempra on Draco and Snape's appeareance precisely in that moment) I thought Snape was following Draco, keeping track of Draco in order to gather a clue about his plans.
And, to Harry's disgrace, Snape happened to be on his spying on Draco when the event at the bathroom ocurred.

Other impression I had during this part was that Snape didn't expect to see one of his curses being used by Harry.
However, we know (Snape's own words) that the Marauders used curses invented by Snape against him. Or was only James?
Because if it was only James, there's no way Harry could have learnt the curse from him. BUT if Sirius used to do it so, attack Snape with his own weapons, then Snape could have thought that Harry probably learnt the Sectumsempra from Sirius (of course before he died).

Hmmm... but Snape thought immediately on his old book.
Did he see the truth at once through Harry's eyes?
Seems to me that's the answer, Harry was too much distraught
and unable to hide anything. On the other hand, he got out too much easy for my taste. I mean, its really odd that Snape didn't insist on having the real book, he seemed to accept Harry's clumsy explanations about Ron's book (the one he was giving Snape instead).

I don't know but I feel like Elisa, could it be Dumbledore's hand behind all this loopholes?

Maybe Dumbledore told Snape to leave his advanced potions book in its old classroom but without giving him further explanations. (Just like Dumbledore's style)

Juliet, it was new news to me too. If not because of Puddingdale's comment, I'll never know that JKR made such a suggestion for the second movie.
That was really...what's the word?... foreboding?
Well, not foreboding, after all they're her books.
But to be honest, I didn't notice the books on the movie.
I can't remember them. Seems to me that it was an important detail but so easy to ignore or forget that I can't see the point to use it.

Nice Monday to all!

Monday, March 6th 2006 - 10:09:06 AM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Something else: I found it AWFULLY convenient that Snape just happened by the bathroom as Harry used the Sectum Sempra curse on Malfoy. I can't imagine that he would allow such a thing to happen on purpose, but yet . . . doesn't it seem very coincidental??? Could he have been keeping track of Harry more than we know through Legilimancy? He told Harry things like that depend on distance, but Voldemort was connected to Harry mentally even though they weren't close. Not the same, I know, but in the same school - might that not be close enough for someone as skilled as Snape? Harry has always, from the first book, gotten the feeling that Snape knew what he was thinking!

Monday, March 6th 2006 - 09:15:40 AM

Name:

 Claudia

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 I've been having computer problems so I haven't been able to keep up with the boards. I hope yall didn't think I abandoned you. From the look of things, it seems like posting is almost back to normal, maybe? Still no word from Dreambook. I'll let you know if and when I hear something from them. In the meantime, let me know if you have any problems--old or new.

Monday, March 6th 2006 - 08:58:39 AM

Name:

 Elisa

Comments:

 Ciao, with the best coinciseness I can....just to jot down another crazy theory...
...and if someone (maybe Dumbledore) had had a rule putting the book in the cupboard, to find an alternative way to teach Harry something more about potions and possible dangerous spells (even if, too much), after the former failed experience with Snape and Occlumancy?

Monday, March 6th 2006 - 07:53:31 AM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Chris - Leaky Cauldron now has an article saying that the use of the term 'next book' referring to JKR doing a reading for the Queen's birthday, was an error. It says that she will read from one of the books, but she's not sure which one. It will NOT be book 7, though, it says. She will not read from that until it has been published and released.

So - no more information *sigh* not even a tidbit!

Sunday, March 5th 2006 - 07:50:45 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 *regaining composure*
Also, back to smaller posts - no security code again with this entire thing! Wheeee! Let's see how many it takes!

Something I saw while looking this up, a couple of pages before, which speaks to Harry's view of people, Snape, in particular:

After being in Snape's DADA class the first time-- Harry: 'Did you hear him talking about the Dark Arts? He loves them! All that unfixed, indestructible stuff--'
Hermione: 'Well, I thought he sounded a bit like you.'
Harry: 'Like me?'
Hermione: 'Yes, when you were telling us what it's like to face Voldemort. You said . . . it was just you and your brains and your guts--well, wasn't that what Snape was saying?'

It shows how the two had very different perceptions of what they had heard. Who is right? Harry, thinking Snape spoke with a 'caress' in his voice, or Hermione, who heard practical advice??

Sunday, March 5th 2006 - 07:37:26 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Wow! JKR insisting on the old book on Snape's desk because it would be important in Movie 6 is telling! It means that Snape left the book on purpose because he moved it from the desk to the cupboard where Slughorn found it.

Something interesting is that, when he got the books for Harry and Ron he said, '. . . and we've got a small stock of old books here . . . . That means that Snape put the book in with that 'small stock of old books' on purpose. He could have charmed it so Harry would get it - the question is: did he? Would he really want Harry to have it? Could someone else have put it there? BUT, if they did, why didn't Snape miss it?

BUT. . .but. . .but. . .Aaaaaaaaaaah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sunday, March 5th 2006 - 07:35:31 PM

Name:

 Juliet

Location:

 UK

Comments:

 I didn't know about the old book being on SS's desk in movie2 at JKR's say-so either.
SS couldn't have known he was going to get the DADA job in HBP(could he?). In the normal course of events, SS wouldn't have allowed Harry to take Potions at NEWT level as his OWL result wan't good enough. When he knew Slughorn was going to teach Potions, I wonder if SS charmed the book to make sure Harry got it to help him, unlikely as he was mad as muck that HP had it, of course, DD could have charmed it (much more likely), or Slughorn, on DD's orders.

Sunday, March 5th 2006 - 04:22:05 PM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 Really Puddingdale? JRK did insist on that for the second movie? I didn't know it!

Well, this detail points out two things:
- Snape kept his old book in its classroom for a reason
- and left it there on purpose. (I can't see Snape forgetting something behind that hold so many important things, such as its half-blood thing and the nasty curses invented by him.)

I've always wondered why Snape remained in his teaching position at Hogwarts after Voldemort's first downfall.
(Probably I'd commented this before...)
He told Bellatrix that it was because he was comfortable there (safe from Azkaban because DD's protection and with a job) but it sounds unlikely to be the real motive.
If Dumbledore cleared Snape's name before the Wizengamot was because of his trust on him. DD was sure of Snape not being a death eater but a spy for the good side. So, it sounds odd that Snape didn't take the chance to begin a new life, pursuing its ambitions (as the Slytherin he is).

Unless he knew that Voldemort wasn't gone forever.
Dumbledore knew it, of that I have no doubt.
Could it be possible that DD asked Snape to remain at Hogwarts? In Goblet of Fire we see that they have already made plans in case of Voldemort's return to power. Snape knew what DD will ask him for and was ready to do it.

Snape is good, Snape is good!!
And Dumbledore is not dead!!

(Ooopss... sorry, I lost my head sometimes...)

LOL!

Sunday, March 5th 2006 - 04:02:25 PM

Name:

 Puddingdale

Comments:

 Hi again, everyone! How cool that we can all post again. Well, well, the Horcruxes. I think I am too lazy or too thick to speculate on them now. *lol*
But one more thing about the HBP potions book. I do not think the book had not been in the classroom before, because Rowling insisted that in the second movie an old book be put on Snape's desk (you can see two old books on top of each other there.) She claimed that book of Snape's would become important in Book 6 and she wanted it in Snape's office. So, Snape obviously was in possession of the HBP book then. (I cannot imagine any other book Rowling might have meant here.) Still, an even stranger coincidence Harry should get the book. And why oh why did Snape not hide it? Or keep it back home at Spinner's End? *lol*
And as to Snape still teaching potions without using his improved knowledge: In a role play I am having with a friend that question made me desperate at a point. So, I answered it with the lame assumption that the Ministry would forbid a former Death Eater to teach anything than what was in the old books. And that they would forbid Snape to publish anything at all. In that case, poor Snape.

Sunday, March 5th 2006 - 10:15:28 AM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 Hey, there's my post!! (My post and one of my many tests...)
Wow, I thought it to be gone through the veil and beyond!

Very typical of my luck, I'd just said that have no problems with posting and precisely in that moment I can't see my posts anymore. LOL!

Well, let's continue with the continuation... @_._@

Yes Puddingdale, you have an excellent point!
If Snape had been able to improve all those potions, why still keeping the old book? Sounds odd, unless he wasn't aware that the book was there. Nah, this sounds absurd.
After so many years teaching in the same classroom, he must have known each corner perfectly well.
Hmmm...
Oh yes... What if the book wasn't there before? Somebody put it there after Snape got his new classroom. This "somebody" knew that Harry didn't buy the required potions book for the class and will need one.
Hmmm... nah... there were two books, Slug gave one to Ron and another to Harry, too risky for a so-called plan. Ron could have gotten the HBP book instead of Harry, it was just a matter of luck that happened otherwise.
Or not?
Well, if the book was intended to be in Harry's hands, the only possibility is that Slughorn gave it to Harry on purpose, I mean with a double intention.
Could this book have been in Slughorn's possession for years? Maybe there's something very important on that book that will play a significant role.

(Mental note: Keep an eye on Slug in the last book.)

Anyway, I truly believe that Snape knew Harry was using his old potions book. Harry's attempt to hide the truth from Snape was very weak.

WELCOME BACK CHRIS!! *hugs*

Well, I don't think we have any huge new theory here...
Maybe yes, but we'll never know until JKR gives us a hand.
(...and I have the strong suspicion she won't do such a thing...bad Jo)

OK, I have only this tiny, tiny thing, a small detail I saw in OoTP, but its very simple. *blush*
Did you remember the cleaning at Grimmauld Place? Specifically, the part when Sirius is throwing away a lot of stuff (there is the mention of the locket that maybe the real horcrux RAB stole from the cave), okey one of the things mentioned there is another book:
Nature's Nobility: A Wizarding Genealogy

After all the fuss about the Black's family tapestry with its own genealogy, maybe this other book can be useful to fill in the gaps (the burnmarks). Hmmm...however this sounds futile. More likely is that Harry or Hermione will find out who Eileen Prince was or to whom she and Snape were related.
What if, after all, the Princes and the Dumbledores were somehow connected?

Have a nice Sunday everyone!

Sunday, March 5th 2006 - 08:49:26 AM

Name:

 Chris

Homepage URL:

 http://premiumpie.blogspot.com/

Comments:

 Ohoho! I`m baaaack! Now, what`s up with THIS thingy? Nothing`s happening to me....buuu!
Hey did you know that at the queen`s birthday party JKR will be reading an excerpt from her NEW book? Anyone here that plans to attend? ROFL
So, any new theory on the loose? I haven`t been able to catch up with all the posts, you people have been so busy! :D
Cheers!

Sunday, March 5th 2006 - 02:19:12 AM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Well - here goes again. I've posted this twice with no luck. I got the security thing but then was asked to join Dreambook!

Anyway, that's a really good point, Puddingdale! You would think that Snape would want credit for his extraordinary potions abilities, not to mention magic in general. Although I don't think he'd want to publicize the Sectum Sempra curse :oO

Saturday, March 4th 2006 - 08:33:48 PM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 "This is only a test for the emergency broadcast system"

beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep

Let's see... *sigh*

Saturday, March 4th 2006 - 08:24:04 PM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 WoW!! Welcome back Puddingdale and Jan!

Okey, let's see if I don't miss a thing here...

- About the HBP hidden "identity", I re think about the matter and guessed a few things:

I still believe it was a hidden nickname, I mean, not widely known by the whole school. If it had been the case, I don't doubt Sirius could have use it to mock Snape, additional to the Snivellus one, in front of Harry.

Probably, Snape was a very solitary boy, he could have been part of "a gang who turn to be death eaters later" (Sirius told Harry something like this) but that doesn't mean he shared with them the same interest for study or even they were best buddies at all.
I can't see Snape sharing his property with nobody, so his nickname written on a back of one of his books could have been easily a well-kept secret.

In relation with the similarity between "Half-blood Prince" and "I am Lord Voldemort" I think its just superficial (I HOPE SO WITH ALL MY HEART).

While Snape's nickname seems to be just that, a nickname, we know that for Voldemort his "nickname" is more than that.
Its a whole new identity, he stopped to be Tom Riddle, he buried his original name in the past and created a new "self" for himself. At such extent that, as Dumbledore told Harry, when Lord Voldemort made his appearance into the Wizarding World nobody was able to relate him with the same Tom Riddle, the handsome boy who had been headboy (or prefect?) at Hogwarts.

Hey! I'm going to split my message too!
Have no problem with posting myself but I'm going to do it as a solidarity gesture. (Also have found that is easier to read many short posts than sermon-like ones like my own posts... sorry for that)

To be continue...

Saturday, March 4th 2006 - 08:23:43 PM

Name:

 Puddingdale

Comments:

 I know, I know. Why Snape would leave a book filled with his own personal dark curses is really bothering. And there is another thing I find highly illogical: Since Snape as a student obviously improved the potion making (with his notes enabling Harry to get better marks), why would he still be teaching potions with the old books? Why would he not teach the improved versions of potion making? Nor write a revised addition of the students' book? Wouldn't he want to pass his discoveries on to the next generation, especially as he seems to be so eager to gain appreciation/an Order of Merlin? Wouldn't that bring him some acknowledgement in the wizarding world?

Saturday, March 4th 2006 - 09:09:41 AM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Puddingdale: It seems to me it would be possible, even logical, that Snape would leave his book in the cupboard IF it were an ordinary school book. But think of what's in there - the Sectum Sempra curse! That's extraordinarily dangerous stuff to leave around. And it isn't really a private cupboard - that would be in his personal quarters and locked to anyone but himself.

It's unlikely he left it for Harry, because there were two old books in there - one given to Ron and one to Harry. Unless Snape and Slughorn together arranged it.

Saturday, March 4th 2006 - 08:29:33 AM

Name:

 Puddingdale

Comments:

 Hurray, it worked. Thanks for the idea of splitting the message, Jan :-)
As to Snape's mum's book: Could it be he left it in the cupboard, because that was actually his private cupboard as a Potions teacher? And that he simply left it there when Slughorn took his position, not thinking that Sluggy might give it to a student (a strange coincidence Harry should get it anyway) or that he simply forgot it in his haste to become DADA teacher?
Or maybe he left it on purpose to pass another message to Harry? Raaaaaaaaah, when will we know?

Saturday, March 4th 2006 - 06:53:53 AM

Name:

 Puddingdale

Comments:

 This quote by Moody alias Crouch has probably been posted here before (?): "Both of us, for instance, had very disappointing fathers...very disappointing indeed. Both of us suffered the indignity, Harry, of being named after those fathers. And both of us had the pleasure...the very great pleasure...of killing our fathers, to ensure the continued rise of the Dark Order!" (GoF)
Could not that quote apply to Snape as well? I stumbled over the being named after the father, especially. And could that mean that Snape indeed killed Tobias? And hey, where is Snape's mother (or his father) now? And worst: will these questions be answered in Book Seven, or are they ramblings that never even crossed Rowling's mind as important for her story? *boohooo*
Right, better a long book with all the questions answered than a short one. Or maybe... if she does not answer any of our questions we can go on making up our own stories :-)

Saturday, March 4th 2006 - 06:50:31 AM

Name:

 Puddingdale

Comments:

 As to being half blood... Maybe Snape did not need to hide it as much as we think. Voldemort is half blood too, after all. And just like Snape he had a father he despised. If that is true, maybe Snape was even proud to have something in common with the Dark Lord? And to have got rid of his Muggle heritage in a way by rejecting it, including the abandoning of his father's name, and becoming expert in dark curses?

Saturday, March 4th 2006 - 06:49:39 AM

Name:

 Puddingdale

Comments:

 I will have to split the message, too (what a waste.)

Yes, Nahima, right. Snape is not completely clever either. Yet, in his case it is a lack of emotional intelligence. To be pitied. Or maybe there is another reason why he hates Harry? One that we do not know of yet? There are so many theories out there it is hard to keep track.

Saturday, March 4th 2006 - 06:48:59 AM

Name:

 Puddingdale

Comments:

 Testing if there may be a chance to post my three day old ramblings now as well.

Saturday, March 4th 2006 - 06:47:36 AM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Claudia - My posting problems may be solved. If my last posts work, then the problem was the size of the post. I posted each paragraph separately and I got the security code as I should have.

Oddly, on the last post, I got 2 security pages, one after the other!

They're not showing up yet, so . . .

Friday, March 3rd 2006 - 07:06:33 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Elisa - When I was in school, kids wrote all kinds of things in their books and such a nickname would be one of them - even if only for himself. Kids often don't think of the possibility that someone else might see it. BUT I certainly found it very interesting that the book was in a cupboard at the school. That is very strange, especially considering that Snape was the Potions Master at the school. Considering what he knew was in it, you would think he would have made sure it wasn't lying around!

Friday, March 3rd 2006 - 07:03:43 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 This is partly because of his reluctance to give Harry credit, but he's really pretty much right! Harry has his talents, it's true, such as flying, but often pays NO attention in his classes and needs Hermione to teach him everything he knows, almost. Dumbledore told Harry that he acquired abilities from Voldemort as a result of V's attempt to kill him, so he has those, but DD told Harry that his biggest asset is that he can love. That's his true strength - and that has nothing to do with talent. That's something that Voldemort never knew and Snape (apparently) rejected.

I've tried to post this darned thing for 3 days and I'm not giving up!!!

Friday, March 3rd 2006 - 07:02:53 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 As far as Harry being a little dumb . . . not really, I think, but it's true that he does miss a lot. But no more than most teenagers. And one of the strongest messages of the book is the importance of friendship and working together, each using their own best abilities to accomplish a goal. It's one of my favorite things about the books. And Harry, after seeing the HBP's instructions were useful would never connect Snape to them willingly. To give Snape credit would be more than Harry could stand. And the opposite is true, too. Snape says of Harry, in Spinner's End, '. . .it became apparent to me very quickly that he had no extraordinary talent at all. He has fought his way out of a number of tight corners by a simple combination of sheer luck and more talented friends.'

Friday, March 3rd 2006 - 07:02:05 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 In HBP the writing in the potions book is described as, 'small, cramped handwriting' so it could be the same as Snape's 'spidery, cramped handwriting' (I think it was something like that, too.

Friday, March 3rd 2006 - 07:01:29 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 Isn't it funny how most of the people in HP who are most against half-bloods ARE half-bloods: Snape & Voldemort come to mind immediately. Although I'm not sure we know that Snape is particularly against half-bloods(?), only that he is ashamed of the fact that HE is one. Although, as you say, if he's ashamed of it why use it for himself? Maybe he's not against them.

Friday, March 3rd 2006 - 07:00:42 PM

Name:

 Claudia

Location:

 GA

Comments:

 Are the posting problems still plaguing us?

Friday, March 3rd 2006 - 03:13:09 PM

Name:

 Hikity

Location:

 Germany, snowy, puuh

Comments:

 Has anyone finished reading "Mapping the world of HP" yet? There a quite a few interesting essays in it, besides the Snape-one esp. the archetypal hero.
I am quite sure Snapy won't be the baddie, but as often the case in books/films, the baddie who turns to become a goodie has to die....devastating prospects, shudder

Friday, March 3rd 2006 - 09:25:27 AM

Name:

 Elisa

Comments:

 Ciao, you are right, Harry sometimes is so clever, to turn to be a dumb many other times.
In first book, only prof. Quirrell ins't involved in the protection of the stone, Hagrid and the dog, Flitch and the flying keys...Dumbledore and the mirror. Maybe, this means that Dumbledore doesn't trust him. Well, why did he go to dungeons (but to the wrong direction)?
Thinking about Snape as HBP, why to write his name behind the book? Why to leave the book available to other students?
Why to use a nickname to hide himself, on a book that all could have known as his?
Might it be a reference mark between him and someone else?

Friday, March 3rd 2006 - 08:16:23 AM

Name:

 Carla

Location:

 Australia

Comments:

 Nirmah, Ah you used the evil word for the moment... *wispers*... IDENTITY... you try studing it, within the context of everthing under the sun. :)

I agree i will not be pleased if snape turns evil and by not pleased i mean, i will have to hate JkR with the malace of eighty-thousand firy swords.

maybe his parents.. well atlest his mother will come into it more. who knows.

a lttle ot but i have a funny story about finding writing in books:
There is a few people that i go to school with, including myself, whos parents went to the same school. And because this cirtain school is not the most up to date, one day in science a friend of mine laura smith was using an old textbook and she found written by her father
" John Smith is the S**t" written in the margin.

they wern't the names but you get the point :)

Friday, March 3rd 2006 - 02:08:50 AM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 That is the truth, Hikity!

A lot of fans, both children and adults, will need a psychiatrist if Snape turns to be evil.

(I'm checking the ones available on my town, just in case)

:D

Thursday, March 2nd 2006 - 07:23:13 PM

Name:

 Hikity

Location:

 good old G.

Comments:

 I have always loved Snape (even BEFORE I saw the first film, please...after I had read three books!) and therefore I totally agree: it would be paedagogically completely wrong.

Thursday, March 2nd 2006 - 06:04:50 PM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 Just a test...

See you! (.)-(.)

Thursday, March 2nd 2006 - 01:48:54 PM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 Well, Puddingdale and Carla you are right.
Harry has been really dumb sometimes! LOL!

But he is not 100% stupid, remember Dumbledore in HBP: "I am not worried Harry, I'm with you." (This is one of my favorites quotes from the book... *sob* )

Btw, Snape has his own percentage of stupidity since he seems to be unable to let go his past and spoil his present with those bad memories. I can understand his resentment toward James but it's absurd to pass it on to Harry. That's not very clever of Sev.

Carla, I also have lost track of what we had discussed here and what not... I find that detail you mentioned very significant. When Snape discovered himself as the HBP it was obvious he felt proud about it. However, he kept this "identity" hidden on the back of a book. Maybe he did that in order to keep his pretense of being pureblood, or at least to avoid other slytherins to bother him about his muggle parent. We have to remember that Snape was moving into a circle where was prohibited any relation with the muggles. As a matter of fact, the nickname itself seems to declare his proud on his mother's Prince heritage disregarding the Snape/muggle one.
Maybe this name of HBP was created and given to him by his mother.

There so much we don't know... *sigh*

Thursday, March 2nd 2006 - 10:55:46 AM

Name:

 Carla

Comments:

 I think harry is a bit thick too. I get so frustrated, thinking "its so obvious" and esp. in the earlier book when i was almost yelling at the books "Stop suspecting Snape, it hasn't been him the last 3 times you suspected him, why don't you try somebody else... maybe the new Dada teacher???!!!!"

That thing about the writeing is intersting, but i don't think it is a major key to anything.

It's strange that snape turned out ot be a half-blood, i thought it was his book but my only doubt to my thoery was that i thought he was a full blood. But for some reason when i wrote a fanfic once i made his parents half-blood, to make it fit.
And another thing was that, he had written "half blood prince" on his book but he was so intent on hiding it.

This may have been discussed before so i apologise. I just wanted to mention it.

Thursday, March 2nd 2006 - 01:45:55 AM

Name:

 Puddingdale

Comments:

 Just a short mail about Snape's handwriting. Well, to me the description of the Half Blood Prince's handwriting made me think of Snape quite quickly. Who else could have been the potion specialist anyway? And Levicorpus was the last piece needed in the puzzle. :-)
In my humble opinion, Harry is a little dumb indeed. He keeps forgetting a lot. E.g. in GoF he could not even put the golden egg under water without Myrtle's continuous hints, although that was the obvious thing to do. What would he be without Hermione and his other friends? Of course, that one is a good message about friendship :-)
And maybe I only find Harry thick, because I have started empathizing with Snape too much. *secretly stirs potion and curls lips* ;-)
And yes, wouldn't it be pedagocically horrible to make the ugly misfit the baddie? And would that not make Dumbledore a trusting old fool? Hey, we cannot allow that.
Of course, Rowling can write whatever she wants now - the last book will bring in the money anyway... :-( But hey, maybe I should trust her more. So far she has done quite well ;-)

Wednesday, March 1st 2006 - 02:54:51 PM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 I agree with you Jan!!

(Thanks for explaining me the letters thingy here, I was not aware it was a safety measure to keep spammers away. :blush: )

Surprise! Do you remember my confusion with the crooked/hooked noses? Well, there is a thread in TLC about Dumbledore's nose right now! Seems that I'm not the only one who find it unusual. LOL!

Talking about the matter, someone pointed out that "Harry might have noticed" if Dumbledore had the nose broken or not in the picture Moody showed to him on OoTP. Reading this made me wonder about something else that its related with our present discussion about Snape's worst memory. (So I'm here with it.)

Harry did see Snape's writing during that event (Snape's worst memory, the part during the exams.)
I think that there was a brief description about it, "spidery" or "cramped"? Hmmm...not sure but it was something like this. Anyway, it was an unusual style of writing because it caught Harry's attention.
HOWEVER, he didn't recognize it in the HBP potions book and it must have been the same writing style of the same younger Snape.

Isn't that curious?

Maybe we can't count on Harry of noticing things and remember them later. He is not dumb, is a very clever boy but careless, not like Hermione who register things to analyse them later. This is not the first time in which Harry forget something important or useful. In OoTP he would have used the two-way mirror to check where was Sirius personally.

Talking about the advanced potions book, it is said that it was probably Eileen's property before Snape. I remember Hermione saying Harry that she thought the book to be from a girl's rather than a boy. If the notes in the margins were made by Eileen, this could explain why Harry didn't noticed any similarity with Snape's writing.
BUT, did this could mean that Eileen was the one who named Snape "the Half-Blood Prince"?
I mean, if there were two different writing styles in that book Hermione or even Harry would have noticed, however nothing like that is mentioned.

"See" you all later, remember to vote!
(I was voting in slow motion, but suddenly I'm back in crazy mode once again. It's hard to see AR in second place, nooo!!)

Wednesday, March 1st 2006 - 02:10:31 PM

Name:

 Jan

Comments:

 If:
More Book = More Snape
Then:
Whooopeeee! I'll read it no matter how long!

Wednesday, March 1st 2006 - 11:04:55 AM

Name:

 Nahima

Comments:

 Hello people!

Puddingdale, I love this!
"Yet, I hope Rowling knows that making Snape really evil would be pedagogically unforgivable :-) "

Yeah, I'll sue her if she forget about this!! LOL!

Yesterday I read her diary's recent entry, seems that she is having troubles with her plan. She is worried about the lenght of the book.

Come on Jo, you can make it as long as you wish! It'll be OK!

It won't matter how much we'll have to read provided that all questions (I said ALL) will be answered. Don't you think?

:D

Wednesday, March 1st 2006 - 10:47:01 AM

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